Apathy Has Set In

[Centerfield]

The sweep doesn’t have me upset. I’m not counting the hours until the next game to get the bad taste out. 
 

There’s a point in every lost season where I accept it’s a lost season and the results don’t matter. I guess I’ve hit it this week. I can’t think of a time it hit before Memorial Day, but then again I can’t remember ever seeing an offense this bad. 
 

I don’t see how anyone is allowed to keep their job. 

[Fman99]

Once again I missed a decent chunk of this week's games as we were busy during the week and then on the road all weekend.  I caught glimpses here and there and did tune in to the last half of their last win, on Thursday, which I enjoyed.

But yeah they suck big rocks 

[metirish]

I found myself dipping into the games, but that was it, I had to look up to see who we are playing today, apathy truly has set in 

[The Hot Corner]

I have resigned myself to the expectation that this team will be lucky to make it to 82 wins.  I will be shocked with anything beyond that.

I will continue to watch them, but I doubt it will be as often as it has been to this point.  

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

I'm not one to call for firings. But I think it's time to seriously look at the new hitting coach. Whatever he's doing, it's not working. 

[Edgy MD]

41 minutes ago, Marshmallowmilkshake said:

I'm not one to call for firings. But I think it's time to seriously look at the new hitting coach. Whatever he's doing, it's not working. 

The problem is that a problem has persisted across several hitting coaches.  It follows league-wide trends but obviously is more acutely undermining the Mets.

It's a philosophical matter and permeates deeply.  If they fire a guy but do not reconsider the philosophies of offense that they operate under, the ghost of Charlie Lau himself will not rescue them.

 

[Centerfield]

This is exactly the issue. It doesn’t matter who they bring in. If the flawed philosophy persists nothing will change. 
 

And nothing suggests they are ready to examine that flawed philosophy. In fact, everything we’ve heard suggests doubling down. 

[seawolf17]

We're all in on the kids, right? I guess we have to just see what happens. I mean, half this team was marked for AAA this season, so they're *going* to be bad. It just is.

[Radar]

2 hours ago, Centerfield said:

This is exactly the issue. It doesn’t matter who they bring in. If the flawed philosophy persists nothing will change. 
 

And nothing suggests they are ready to examine that flawed philosophy. In fact, everything we’ve heard suggests doubling down. 

Not disagreeing but not convinced this is a philosophical problem. It's a player problem in my opinion more even than philosophy. P!ease if we make changes I hope Stearns is first to go. Then okay make whatever changes you want.

[ashie62]

I cancelled my SNY subscription for now anyway

I believe we're looking at 68-94

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, ashie62 said:

I cancelled my SNY subscription for now anyway

I believe we're looking at 68-94

Sad.

[ashie62]

Father Mulcahey would say there is no jocularity in Metsville

[Gwreck]

7 hours ago, Edgy MD said:

The problem is that a problem has persisted across several hitting coaches.  It follows league-wide trends but obviously is more acutely undermining the Mets.

2021: Mets scored 636 runs.  27th in MLB, (13th in NL).

2022:  772 runs.  3rd in MLB (3rd in NL).

2023: 717 runs.  20th in MLB (11th in NL).

2024: 768 runs  7th in MLB (5th in NL).

2025: 766 runs.  9th in MLB (6th in NL).

The Mets have regularly ranked in the upper third of the league in runs scored., across those multiple hitting coaches.

[metsmarathon]

Yeah but it always just feeeels so tenuous. Like at times they score runs despite themselves. 
 

curious what their more clutchy stats look like. Are they notably worse or better with risp, and how does that shift compare to the rest of the league. 
 

[Frayed Knot]

7 hours ago, metsmarathon said:

curious what their more clutchy stats look like. Are they notably worse or better with risp, and how does that shift compare to the rest of the league. 

Lack of 'clutch' hasn't been the problem. Unlike 2025 when the Mets were in the upper ranks of overall OPS yet only in the middle of the pack in runs scored* because their OPS w/runners on and w/RiSP were miles behind their bases-empty prowess, this year they're actually slightly-better with duckies on ponds.

So, no, the problem now is that they're DFL in OPS (tied for last w/COL in OPS+ where home field conditions are taken into consideration) which makes last week's 'scoring surge', one which boosted their RS/G up to a lofty 26th best in MLB, actually lean slightly to the fortunate side of things.

 

 

* not having access to the 'chives means I can't draw up the specifics, but at one point last year they were 5th or 6th in all MLB in OPS but somewhere around 15th in runs scored which, considering that OPS is the best correlation to runs scored, is really difficult to do but the '25 Mets somehow managed. Only one other club (ATH) had a bigger rankings differential at the time. That OPS-v-RS gap got smaller as the year went on -- regression to the mean and all that -- but never quite managed to synch up entirely finishing the season at a more reasonable 6th OPS vs 9th in RS/G, 

[Centerfield]

Yup. I remember that being a big issue in 2025.  The final numbers were much better than most of the year because of their insane August. They then reverted back in September.  And yes, August counts and the numbers fell where they fell, but there was certainly justification for calling for Chavez to be fired for most of the season. 
 

The Chavez situation is interesting in hindsight. He’s spoken openly about there being competing theories with the two hitting coaches and his disdain for David Stearns. Because he’s such an ass I assumed he was the problem. Could it be he was the only thing keeping the 2025 Mets from being the unmitigated disaster that is 2026?

[MFS62]

I remember on the old board when the Mets named a hitting coordinator. I wondered how that differed from a hitting coach and was told the coordinator sets the approach for the entire organization. 

If you check the daily minor league box scores (thank you Brock), you'll notice that approach isn't working at any level. Too many games with fewer than nine hits of any kind and the AA team was no-hit twice within a week.

Maybe they have to re-evaluate what the coordinator is doing and let him coordinate with some other organization.

LAter

[ashie62]

Good point and I am available 

[Edgy MD]

Man, look how bad all the vet starters on the Padres are hitting.

[The Hot Corner]

Another day, another game, same rsult.  Mets down 2 in the top of the first.  Would have been worse had Melendez not thrown Saurez out at the plate to end the inning.

[The Hot Corner]

6 minutes ago, Edgy MD said:

Man, look how bad all the vet starters on the Padres are hitting.

The Padres offense is pretty pathetic, that's for sure.  However, they have scored more runs than the Mets and though their average is even worse than ours, their OPS is better.  If misery loves company, then I guess one could take solace in the Padres offensive woes.  Unfortunately, they are practically a mirror image of the Mets inept offense, so I have seen that lack of offense more than I wish this season.

[Edgy MD]

1 hour ago, The Hot Corner said:

If misery loves company, then I guess one could take solace in the Padres offensive woes.

Certainly not solace, but context on how the current game conditions are affecting others, and information on how best to go forward.

[Casey Stengel]

is stevie too proud to admit that too many mistakes have been made and by making changes he would be making that admission?

 

 

[Edgy MD]

What would admission look like?

[Casey Stengel]

8 minutes ago, Edgy MD said:

What would admission look like?

fire stearns, hitting coach, mendoza or the peanut vendor.

 

[Edgy MD]

If blood is shed for blood's sake, without a thoughtful choice about what difference a particular replacement might make, that won't do it for me.

Apart from the Troy Snitker, the hitting coach, none of those represent a recent addition.  And Snitker has a hitting coordinator, Jeff Albert, above him.

And, of course, if the owner is making decisions about the hitting coach, the Mets have worse problems than the hitting coach.

[Casey Stengel]

14 minutes ago, Edgy MD said:

If blood is shed for blood's sake, without a thoughtful choice about what difference a particular replacement might make, that won't do it for me.

Apart from the Troy Snitker, the hitting coach, none of those represent a recent addition.  And Snitker has a hitting coordinator, Jeff Albert, above him.

And, of course, if the owner is making decisions about the hitting coach, the Mets have worse problems than the hitting coach.

 

[Casey Stengel]

they obviously have worse problems and not shaking up this excuse for a 500 million dollar team is the dumbest and most pathetic move. blood being shed will hopefully send the message that he is willing to do something to curtail this trend of failure that has been prevalent since last august. doing nothing will only justify idiocy.

[Edgy MD]

I disagree that that is the dumbest and most pathetic move.

And I didn't advocate for doing nothing.

[Centerfield]

Firing or not firing people is not the problem. If those people took responsibility and said things like “we’ve done a terrible job. We are looking inward at our philosophies and trying to find where we went wrong to make sure it doesn’t continue”.  Then yeah.  You don’t have to fire them.

But no one says that. They refuse to acknowledge fault. Ron was pretty brutal about the lack of coaching today on the failure to backup bases. It’s a symbol of this front office. Refusal to change. 
 

If the ppl in charge are failing and refusing to change, firing them is not just the right move. It’s necessary.