2022 HOF Ballot

[MFS62]

=bmfc1 post_id=85101 time=1643152717 user_id=73]
Suck it, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling.

[Willets Point]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJ_HKAkXEAIVbbz?format=jpg>



Former Met Pedro Martinez standing by when Papi got the call.

[Willets Point]

I only just now learned that the time on the ballot has been reduced from 15 to 10 years and that Bonds and Clemens reached their limit. I kind of expected that they would get in eventually on 15-year balloting process. I guess they'll have to wait for the PED Era Committee to vote.

[Frayed Knot]

I thought Verducci put it well [paraphrasing]



Bonds, Clemens, et al will still have their records, they'll still have their awards, they'll still have their money, they'll still have their recognition. But the HoF is an honor and it's one that [he feels] they didn't earn.





Of course 2/3 of the voters disagree with Verducci's stance but Cooperstown's standard has always been high (3/4) and those guys didn't clear it.

[Gwreck]

The voters are dumb. There's no principled basis to omit Bonds while voting for Ortiz.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Enjoying the irony that some writers two years ago said Jeter deserved to the elected alone because he was so special. Jeter denied that honor, but a Red Sox player with possible taint gets it instead.



Seems like the writers punted here, leaving the committees to make the ultimate decision.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Yeah, there are easily 10 worthy candidates here, and more next

[Lefty Specialist]

Papi should go into the HOF based on that shirt alone. Good for him, and good it was ONLY him. Bonds and Clemens will get in later when it's not the writers doing the voting. It should be as painful as possible for those two assholes.

[Edgy MD]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Papi should go into the HOF based on that shirt alone.

It's too bad the rest of the A-Team couldn't be there to celebrate with him.

[seawolf17]

Who's the guy sitting with him in that shot? I feel like I should recognize him too.

[seawolf17]

Also, I'm really crossing my fingers for a Kenan Thompson Big Papi appearance on SNL this weekend, because I think that character is hilarious.



[media=youtube]luWBghJpx9I[/media]

[Edgy MD]

It's hard to imagine a year later, but had Curt Schilling just been gracious last year, let a publicist write his response for him, and enjoyed the last-year-on-the-ballot-bump, there's a real good chance that he'd've been up all last night celebrating and he'd be fielding congratulatory calls from all over over the country. Instead, by spitting in the direction of even the writers who supported him, he made himself toxic. The only guy crashing harder than him was Omar Vizquel, who is being investigated for sexually harassing a child.



Also worth looking at who is trending forward — Scott Rolen, Billy Wagner, Andruw Jones, Todd Helton. Keeping it classy has its benefits. A lot of their votes probably came from the same voters who dropped Vizquel and Schilling.



Check out Prince Fielder and Justin Morneau. One year and onto the heap.

[th]Player[/th]	[th]2021 Votes[/th]	[th]2021 Pct.[/th]	[th]2022 Votes[/th]	[th]2022 Pct.[/th]	[th]Vote Dif.[/th]	[th]Pct. Dif.[/th]
	IN
	David Ortiz						307		77.9%
	NOT IN
	Barry Bonds		248		61.8%		260		66.0%		+12		+4.2%
	Roger Clemens (final year on ballot)		247		61.6%		257		65.2%		+10		+3.6%
	Scott Rolen		212		52.9%		249		63.2%		+37		+10.3%
	Curt Schilling (final year on ballot)		285		71.1%		231		58.6%		=#BF0000]-54		=#BF0000]-12.5%
	Todd Helton		180		44.9%		205		52.0%		+25		+7.1%
	Billy Wagner		186		46.4%		201		51.0%		+15		+4.6%
	Andruw Jones		136		33.9%		163		41.1%		+27		+7.2%
	Gary Sheffield		163		40.6%		160		40.6%		=#BF0000]-3		0.0%
	Alex Rodriguez						135		34.3%
	Jeff Kent		130		32.4%		129		32.7%		=#BF0000]-1		+0.3%
	Manny Ramirez		113		28.2%		114		28.9%		+1		+0.7%
	Omar Vizquel		197		49.1%		94		23.9%		=#BF0000]-103		=#BF0000]-25.2%
	Sammy Sosa (final year on ballot)		68		17.0%		73		18.5%		+5		+1.5%
	Andy Pettitte		55		13.7%		42		10.7%		=#BF0000]-13		=#BF0000]-3.0%
	Jimmy Rollins						37		9.4%
	Bobby Abreu		35		8.7%		34		8.6%		=#BF0000]-1		=#BF0000]-0.1%
	Mark Buehrle		44		11.0%		23		5.8%		=#BF0000]-21		=#BF0000]-5.2%
	Torii Hunter		38		9.5%		21		5.3%		=#BF0000]-17		=#BF0000]-4.2%
	<5%, FALLING OFF BALLOT
	Joe Nathan						17		4.3%
	Tim Hudson		21		5.2%		12		3.0%		=#BF0000]-9		=#BF0000]-2.2%
	Tim Lincecum						9		2.3%
	Ryan Howard						8		2.0%
	Mark Teixeira						6		1.5%
	Jonathan Papelbon						5		1.3%
	Justin Morneau						5		1.3%
	A.J. Pierzynski						2		0.5%
	Prince Fielder						2		0.5%
	Carl Crawford						0		0.0%
	Jake Peavy						0		0.0%

Voters really seem to hate the Phils, huh?

[seawolf17]

You know, voting is wild sometimes. Could you imagine at the end of the 2011 season, coming off a ROY and six straight top-ten MVP finishes (including one win), and an *average* of 41 HR and 123 RBI over those seven seasons, that Ryan Howard wouldn't even make it past one ballot?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I noticed Ryan Howard among the dropouts and thought the same thing. It's really hard to sustain a Hall-of-Fame career.

[Edgy MD]

That's why I'm generally not supportive of the one-and-done rule, nor of cutting ballot eligibility from 15 to 10 years.



The Ryans Howard look a lot more attractive on bigger ballots.

[Frayed Knot]

Howard's problem, despite a heckuva prime, is that he both got started late -- half season at age 25, 1st full season (and MVP) at 26 -- and then

petered out early -- essentially was a sub-par player after age 31.

From 2006 thru '11 he was .274/.370/.559 // 939 (139 OPS+) with an MVP, four Top-5 MVPs, and a WS title.

He's one of those first half career HoF'ers whose second half failed to maintain: Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Andruw Jones, and hell, maybe David Wright too.







Speaking of 1st basemen - who do you like? A, B, or C

	Yrs		PA		BA		OBA		SLG		HR		RBI		OPS+		T-10 MVP
	14		8,029		.268		.360		.509		409		1,298		126		2, no wins
	17		8,553		.296		.384		.436		162		1,071		128		3, one win
	13		6,531		.258		.343		.515		382		1,194		125		4, one win

Player A is Mark Teixeira, a one and done last night at a shockingly low (to me anyway) 1.5%.

C is R. Howard, also a one and done.

B is Keef





Keith, of course, was a fielder at that position like no other, but Teixeira was real damn good. Howard = not good at all.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: It's hard to imagine a year later, but had Curt Schilling just been gracious last year, let a publicist write his response for him, and enjoyed the last-year-on-the-ballot-bump, there's a real good chance that he'd've been up all last night celebrating and he'd be fielding congratulatory calls from all over over the country. Instead, by spitting in the direction of even the writers who supported him, he made himself toxic. The only guy crashing harder than him was Omar Vizquel, who is being investigated for sexually harassing a child. Also worth looking at who is trending forward — Scott Rolen, Billy Wagner, Andruw Jones, Todd Helton. Keeping it classy has its benefits. A lot of their votes probably came from the same voters who dropped Vizquel and Schilling. Check out Prince Fielder and Justin Morneau. One year and onto the heap.

I think that Curt Schilling doesn't WANT the writers to vote for him, because he doesn't want to thank them. He wants to get put in the hall a few years from now by a committee of his fellow former players.



The ballot get interesting next year. would like to see guys like Rolen get their due. It feels like we finally got past the 'steroid log jam' here where very worthy players like Jim Edmonds fell off without any consideration while we were busy arguing about the roid heads.

[Edgy MD]

If that's truly Schilling's position, that's terribly sad.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

The only big name joining the conversation next year is Carlos Beltran, so there sure would seem like opportunities for Rolen, Wagner, Jones and Helton to move up a bit. The following year has Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. As an aside, 2024 also has some nice Metly connections: Wright, Reyes and Colon and the bastard Chase Utley.



It's a shame Howard fell off so quickly. Seems like he got lost in the shuffle and deserved a little longer look.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Astros garbage pail scandal is going to weigh heavily on Beltran.

[Edgy MD]

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=85176 time=1643235349 user_id=119]It's a shame Howard fell off so quickly. Seems like he got lost in the shuffle and deserved a little longer look.

[nymr83]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Astros garbage pail scandal is going to weigh heavily on Beltran.

He was getting in by his 2nd or 3rd year before that, I'd think.





Howard? I wouldn't consider him for half a second.

[Edgy MD]

I tend to think he should be in the Mets Hall of Fame for signing a massive contract, going into the tank, and then dragging the best Phillies team ever down with him.

[seawolf17]

Wright and Reyes aren't even going to break 20% and it's going to make me sad.

[metsmarathon]

i feel like the logjam lifting should help beltran far, far more than the trash can garbage hurts him.



also, there should be no vote for andruw that is not also a vote for carlos.



rolen should be in already, and it's a damn shame that he isn't. i expect him to get in next year, hopefully joined by beltran, at least.



its amazing to think that wright likely won't get enough votes to stay on the ballot for more than one cycle. again, though, i think that having the logjam out of the way, might boost his chances of getting the required 5%. but ti'd take some really big-hall type voters to keep him going. getting a few guys in this next year would help him in that regard.



it will be _really_ interesting to see what the voting looks like next year, what with bonds and clemens out of the way. there's still some prickly votes out there in arod, vizquel, and manny, but with bonds and clemens off the table, i think it might clear up the electorate to just readily toss them aside.

[bmfc1]

The only big name joining the conversation next year is Carlos Beltran, so there sure would seem like opportunities for Rolen, Wagner, Jones and Helton to move up a bit. The following year has Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. As an aside, 2024 also has some nice Metly connections: Wright, Reyes and Colon and the bastard Chase Utley.

Don't forget Bautista. Utley even on the same ballot as David makes me ill.

[seawolf17]

Beltre should, and will. Mauer probably should, and will. Utley will get close, but guys like Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker have similar cases and they're not in. I don't think any of the rest will.

[Edgy MD]

I'm very much a Lou Whitaker proponent, and I think he had the better career to any fair observation, but he won't be on the ballot with Utley.



But this ballot sure tells me that the BBWAA is not of a romantic mindset about Charlie Manuel's Phils.



Pat Burrell also got Hubie'd on his lone appearance on the ballot.

[nymr83]

Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=nymr83 post_id=85244 time=1643346483 user_id=54]
Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.