Collective Bargaining Agreement

[Fman99]

This is a big stupid mess and I hate it.

[Edgy MD]

Mets: "We'd like to thank Noah Syndergaard for his contributions to our franchise, and wish him luck with his new team, the Los Angeles Angels."



Baseball: "They wish him luck? LOLMETS!!!"



Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Eduardo Escobar."



Baseball: "Same old METS! They take a half-measure and they'll try to sell it as a 'big move'."



Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Starling Marte."



Baseball: "Well, look who's serious! Too bad those idiots didn't replace Syndergaard."



Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Max Scherzer."



Baseball: "OH, FUCK. Quick! Shut down all operations!"



Fans: "Until when?"



Baseball: "UNTIL WE SAY!!"

[Frayed Knot]

Among other things that this stoppage has done is left MLB without a steroid policy.

No testing is going on now for the first time in nearly two decades, and they'll have to either

agree to reinstate the prior one or add negotiating a new one to their list of tasks.

[kcmets]

Bleacher Report:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10026155-report-mlb-stops-testing-for-steroids-after-drug-agreement-with-players-expires.amp.htmlMLB Stops Testing for Steroids After Drug Agreement with Players Expires

[kcmets]

New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/07/sports/baseball/mlb-lockout.htmlAs Baseball Fights Over the Short Term, Long-Term Problems Loom

[kcmets]

The Hill:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/593224-biden-labor-chief-speaks-to-mlb-players-group-amid-lockout?ampBiden labor chief speaks to MLB, players' group amid lockout

[kcmets]

CBS Sports:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/max-scherzer-rich-hill-other-mlb-players-call-out-owners-rob-manfred-as-lockout-drags-on/Max Scherzer, Rich Hill, other MLB players call out owners, Rob Manfred as lockout drags on

[ashie62]

Well bake my ass! No baseball anytime soon.



Rutgers and Nets hoops here.

[metsmarathon]

Edgy MD wrote: Mets: "We'd like to thank Noah Syndergaard for his contributions to our franchise, and wish him luck with his new team, the Los Angeles Angels." Baseball: "They wish him luck? LOLMETS!!!" Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Eduardo Escobar." Baseball: "Same old METS! They take a half-measure and they'll try to sell it as a 'big move'." Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Starling Marte." Baseball: "Well, look who's serious! Too bad those idiots didn't replace Syndergaard." Mets: "We'd like to announce that we just signed Max Scherzer." Baseball: "OH, FUCK. Quick! Shut down all operations!" Fans: "Until when?" Baseball: "UNTIL WE SAY!!"

Baseball: "OK, you can maybe someday perhaps have baseball again, but you have to have the DH."

[kcmets]

Tampa Bay Times:

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2022/02/10/play-ball-sorry-not-until-they-start-playing-nice/?outputType=ampPlay ball? Sorry, not until they start playing nice

[kcmets]

Bleacher Report:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10026801-mlb-lawyer-says-minor-league-players-shouldnt-be-paid-during-spring-training.amp.htmlMLB Lawyer Says Minor League Players Shouldn't Be Paid During Spring Training

[kcmets]

MLB Trade Rumors:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/poll-will-the-season-start-on-time.htmlPoll: Will The Season Start On Time?

[Willets Point]

Bleacher Report: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10026801-mlb-lawyer-says-minor-league-players-shouldnt-be-paid-during-spring-training.amp.htmlMLB Lawyer Says Minor League Players Shouldn't Be Paid During Spring Training

Well that's just evil. I'm guessing this isn't getting settled anytime soon if that's where the owner's are at.

[Willets Point]

https://robertreich.substack.com/p/baseballFormer Labor Secretary Robert Reich offers an illuminating personal account of the 1994-95 strike negotiations.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Willets Point wrote: Bleacher Report: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10026801-mlb-lawyer-says-minor-league-players-shouldnt-be-paid-during-spring-training.amp.htmlMLB Lawyer Says Minor League Players Shouldn't Be Paid During Spring Training Well that's just evil. I'm guessing this isn't getting settled anytime soon if that's where the owner's are at.

I don't think players have ever been paid for spring training. I'm not saying that's a good thing. The pay and accommodations for minor league players is appalling and needs to be improved dramatically. But I don't think this is anything new.

[Edgy MD]

It is indeed evil, but I'm not sure how this feeds into the collective bargaining agreement with the MLBPA.



If the union is indeed taking up the cause of minor leaguers, that would be fantastic.

[Lefty Specialist]

Billionaires can outwait millionaires. MLB isn't negotiating seriously, and they're waiting for player solidarity to crumble. They locked out the players supposedly to 'jumpstart' negotiations, then didn't submit a proposal of any kind for almost two months. The players, in the scheme of things, aren't asking for all that much. But the owners have decided that pretty much anything is too much.



Owners will implement the things they like (extra playoffs and the DH) which arguably make the game worse, and ignore the things players want (competitive teams spending money on their product, not manipulating service time and not treating the luxury tax as a de facto salary cap) which arguably make the game better.

[kcmets]

The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/3126895/2022/02/12/drellich-and-rosenthal-no-reason-to-believe-mlb-season-will-start-on-time/Drellich and Rosenthal: No reason to believe MLB season will start on time

[kcmets]

ESPN:

https://theathletic.com/3126895/2022/02/12/drellich-and-rosenthal-no-reason-to-believe-mlb-season-will-start-on-time/MLB offers changes to tax penalties, minimum salary structure in latest

proposal to locked-out players, sources say

[MFS62]

Here's a summary of the issues discussed yesterday (no pay wall):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVFsq9FQBlchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVFsq9FQBlc



Later

[kcmets]

I get Bartolo's HR when I click on that... which was a surprise treat!!

[The Hot Corner]

=kcmets post_id=85816 time=1644768464 user_id=53]
I get Bartolo's HR when I click on that... which was a surprise treat!!

[Edgy MD]

I've grown very pessimistic the last two days. The league is waiting weeks and weeks between offers, has now made two entirely unacceptable and insulting submissions, and Manfred is acting like a jerk.

[Fman99]

Edgy MD wrote: I've grown very pessimistic the last two days. The league is waiting weeks and weeks between offers, has now made two entirely unacceptable and insulting submissions, and Manfred is acting like a jerk.

Yeah it's extra fucky right now. I'm sad panda

[Frayed Knot]

I haven't seen anything even remotely specific about what's being offered or countered.

Either I'm not searching very hard or these talks are being unusually tight-lipped.

[Edgy MD]

I think it's more that the level of reporting is indifferent. I've certainly had to seek far and wide for information.

[Gwreck]

The Athletic seems to have pretty good sources:



Regarding the proposal made last Saturday by MLB, which reportedly was described by the Union as “underwhelming:”

The league proposed a $5 million increase to the pre-arbitration bonus pool, upping it to $15 million. The union most recently proposed $100 million, leaving still a major gap. MLB raised the luxury-tax thresholds by $2 million in the final three years of five over the deal. They would now progress as $214 million, $214 million, $216 million, $218 million and $222 million. Previously, they were: $214 million, $214 million, $214 million, $216 million and $220 million. MLB maintained a tax rate of 50 percent for teams that exceed the first CBT tier but took away a penalty of a third-round draft pick for doing so. Exceeding the second and third tier remained the same as MLB's last proposal: 75 and 100 percent, respectively, for the second and third tiers; and the loss of a second-round and first-round pick, respectively. The union considers those tax rates onerous. MLB also made changes to its proposal for service-time manipulation.

[Frayed Knot]

Not sure that there's anything in all that that, on the surface, qualifies as "insulting".

[metsmarathon]

i think the biggest complaint is that all the movement by the owners is achingly incremental. $5M to close a $100M gap on the bonus pool, for instance.



there's some progress and some movement, sure, but when manfred comes out and says a significant offer is on the table and they're hoping to walk away with an agreement, you expect them to maybe move closer to the middle and instead have barely moved off the starting line.



but it's fine. they're destroying the sport at the time they can least afford to. it's all good. right...?

[Gwreck]

Who was insulted?



Previously, the players had proposed changes to free agency and arbitration eligibility; the owners had refused to negotiate on those points. My understand is the proposed compromise “pre-arbitration bonus pool” was born as a result.



Not discussed above (in that article at least, but there are plenty of others) are:



-minimum salary



-anti-tanking proposals. I recall reading that the owners were proposing a 3-team draft lottery and the players an 8-team draft lottery.



-how CBT/Luxury tax funds are actually distributed and spent



-service time manipulation. From a February 1 Athletics article:

Regarding service-time manipulation, the union has proposed a system where a player who might not normally get a year of service time would be credited with one year if they reach certain thresholds and levels of performance. The union plan would award a full year of service to rookies who finish in the top five in their league for Rookie of the Year, top three for reliever of the year and/or make first- or second-team All-MLB. Before Tuesday's adjustments, non-outfielders and non-pitchers who place top 10 at their positions in their respective leagues according to an average of bWAR and fWAR also would qualify, as would starting pitchers, relief pitchers and outfielders who place top 30. Now, it's top 7 and top 20, respectively.