Collective Bargaining Agreement

[kcmets]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-lockout-mlbpa-to-present-counter-offer-to-owners-during-in-person-bargaining-session-monday/MLB lockout: MLBPA to present counter-offer to owners

during in-person bargaining session Monday

-- CBS Sports

[batmagadanleadoff]

The two sides will probably never come to an agreement and so there'll never be any more Major League Baseball again, ever.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I doubt that that will happen, but I do wonder, if this thing drags on, if the owners are considering the possibility of replacement players.

[Frayed Knot]

They can't possibly believe they can sell that ... can they?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I really doubt it, but still, I'm wondering if it's in the back of their minds.

[Edgy MD]

Well, if it cuts salaries by 95% or so, they don't have to sell it very far.

[kcmets]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, if it cuts salaries by 95% or so, they don't have to sell it very far.

This makes zero sense. I go to very few games now as it is, I'm certainly going

to go see scabs play for pennies on the dollar. Sell it very far to who? The reluctant

owners? The front office staffs? The scabs?

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Chicago Sun-Times wrote: NEW YORK — Locked-out Major League Baseball players withdrew their proposal for more liberalized free agency and lowered their proposed decrease in revenue sharing Monday. Players had previously asked that players be allowed to become free agents after five years of service with some age provisions rather than the current six. The union had asked that the revenue-sharing transfer amount be cut from $100 million annually to about $30 million.

The full article:



https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/1/24/22899140/mlb-mlbpa-to-resume-labor-negotiationsMLB, MLBPA resume labor negotiations





They're going to talk again tomorrow.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, if it cuts salaries by 95% or so, they don't have to sell it very far. This makes zero sense. I go to very few games now as it is, I'm certainly going to go see scabs play for pennies on the dollar. Sell it very far to who? The reluctant owners? The front office staffs? The scabs?

I thought it made more than zero sense when I wrote it. I refer to selling it to the consumer.



You don't have to go to any games. If a substandard product is offered to an otherwise vacant marketplace, history suggests there will be buyers, whether or not it's you or me.



I know plenty of folks who attended NFL scab games, and a lot more who watched 'em on TV. I wasn't among them, but there they were.

[kcmets]

Right, I guess. And if I'm going to rant I should proofread better too. I meant,

"I'm certainly not going to go see scabs play for pennies on the dollar."

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: They can't possibly believe they can sell that ... can they?

(My sarcasm speaking): No, but they'll be thinking of all the jerseys they will be able to sell with new names on the back.



Later

[Edgy MD]

If they thought there was a market for scab jerseys, I imagine they'd do that in a second.



To be clear, I certainly don't think it should happen. I don't even think it will, as "labor peace" was Commissioner Manfred's brand when he got the job. Without that brand, the owners could well wonder what they are letting him run their business for.



But I think it's certainly a realistic possibility. I think the way baseball is run in this country is crazy. Plenty of things crazier than scabbing are things we take for granted.

[kcmets]

Edgy MD wrote: Plenty of things crazier than scabbing are things we take for granted.

No need to do that. Please. We're talking baseball and an antitrust nightmare.

Not all the other crazier things we (might) take for granted.

[Frayed Knot]

I think there'd be near zero interest in replacement baseball. Plus I don't think the owners are harboring the same pipe-dream as they

had back in '94 when they convinced themselves that by playing their cards exactly right they'd finally be able to break the union.



Football is different. Many regular fans seem willing to follow anything as long as it's attached to their favorite logo-ed helmet.

Casual fans rarely know more than a handful of players on the field at any one time anyway so it wouldn't change much for them.

And you would still be able to bet; now more than ever.

[metsmarathon]

as always, baseball is held to a higher standard than football. football can get away with scab games, and probably would do just fine. basketball, star-driven as it is, could probably get away with scab players better than baseball.



but if baseball were to go that way... hoo boy! there would be outrage! empty stadiums! jerseys rent in the streets!

and also the fans would still yell at the greedy players union for not settling for less of a share of revenues.

[kcmets]

Has anyone heard a peep or two about anything going on with this? I just

scrolled like a dozen pages of Google News App Sports and there isn't one

baseball related story.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Another meeting has been scheduled for today. I suppose that by tonight we'll have some kind of update.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Today's meeting lasted 90 minutes. It was "contentious" and "little progress was made" according to US News and Word Report.



https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2022-02-01/little-movement-in-talks-to-end-baseball-lockoutLittle Movement in Talks to End Baseball Lockout

[The Hot Corner]

I swear, it often seems that baseball just wants to run it's fans away. To the best of my knowledge, none* of my local friends pay even the slightest attention to baseball. Some of them never played and were never really fans, while others seemed to abandon the game following the last labor strike in 1994-1995. They just found other pursuits to occupy their time and never looked back. My best friend said (paraphrasing) he had no sympathy for multimillionaires arguing with billionaires over how to divide up the fan's money, then charging the fans ever increasing prices to subsidize their greed. So F--- Them! I don't need them. This sentiment resonates with most of the others.



*The one friend I did get interested in baseball and became at least a casual Mets fan, moved to the coast a few years ago.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Hot Corner wrote: My best friend said (paraphrasing) he had no sympathy for multimillionaires arguing with billionaires over how to divide up the fan's money, then charging the fans ever increasing prices to subsidize their greed. So F--- Them! I don't need them. This sentiment resonates with most of the others.

Yes, but how is that different from any of the other team sports?

[kcmets]

Spring training ‘likely' to be delayed by MLB lockout, insiders say

[bLOCKQUOTE]You could see this coming from a mile away.

USA Today's Bob Nightengale reports “Spring training likely to be delayed as Tuesday negotiations go nowhere.”

[/bLOCKQUOTE]

NJ.com: https://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/02/mlb-spring-training-likely-to-be-delayed-insider-says.htmlhttps://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/02/mlb-spring-training-likely-to-be-delayed-insider-says.html

[The Hot Corner]

The Hot Corner wrote: My best friend said (paraphrasing) he had no sympathy for multimillionaires arguing with billionaires over how to divide up the fan's money, then charging the fans ever increasing prices to subsidize their greed. So F--- Them! I don't need them. This sentiment resonates with most of the others. Yes, but how is that different from any of the other team sports?

Not that different other than maybe baseball seems to have more frequent and longer work stoppages than do the other professional team sports. It is not like my friends follow the NBA or NHL either. They follow the NFL and golf, that's about it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Hot Corner wrote: The Hot Corner wrote: My best friend said (paraphrasing) he had no sympathy for multimillionaires arguing with billionaires over how to divide up the fan's money, then charging the fans ever increasing prices to subsidize their greed. So F--- Them! I don't need them. This sentiment resonates with most of the others. Yes, but how is that different from any of the other team sports? Not that different other than maybe baseball seems to have more frequent and longer work stoppages than do the other professional team sports. It is not like my friends follow the NBA or NHL either. They follow the NFL and golf, that's about it.

Well, you have the Panthers. Maybe they'd follow MLB if there was only a local home team to follow.

[The Hot Corner]

The Hot Corner wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=85431 time=1643777974 user_id=68] Yes, but how is that different from any of the other team sports? Not that different other than maybe baseball seems to have more frequent and longer work stoppages than do the other professional team sports. It is not like my friends follow the NBA or NHL either. They follow the NFL and golf, that's about it.

Well, you have the Panthers. Maybe they'd follow MLB if there was only a local home team to follow.

[Frayed Knot]

Back to the topic at hand:



"Major League Baseball on Thursday requested the immediate assistance of a federal mediator to help resolve the sport's lockout ... potentially inserting the presence of a

neutral party to end a work stoppage now in its third month.

The league reached out to the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, a governmental agency that attempts to help resolve labor disputes, sources said. Mediation is not

mandatory, and the MLB Players Association would need to agree to the involvement of a third party."





https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33210033/major-league-baseball-looks-federal-mediator-help-end-sport-lockoutJeff Passan - ESPN.com

[metsmarathon]

interesting that mlb called in the mediator, when my understanding is that they have been the intransigent side.



what, if anything, am i to read into this? is the owners' stance that their position is already giving away so much, that to move further to the players is unacceptable, and that they want the mediator to come in and show the players how good the offer really is...?

[Edgy MD]

I read that the owners don't want a delay in the season.



Also, if people don't like baseball, it's probably because there aren't enough players named Bake anymore.

[kcmets]

It's just more Collective Bullshit...



- Owners lock out the players.

- The two sides meet a couple of times.

- Players don't budge.

- Owners throw hands up in air and say players can't be dealt with by us

and suggest a third-party neutral side to deal with the 'unreasonableness.'

- Players say no way Jose*.

- Owners say they tried and players won't sit down and negotiate.

- Players say, 'fuck off, you're the one's who shut things down.'



*Not sure if this part happened yet, but my guess is it will.

[stevejrogers]

- Players say no way Jose*. *Not sure if this part happened yet, but my guess is it will.

ESPN has reported that we have in fact entered this stage. *sigh*

[MFS62]

- Owners throw hands up in air and say players can't be dealt with by us and suggest a third-party neutral side to deal with the 'unreasonableness.' - Players say no way Jose*.

I read one prediction (SI.COM?) that said the players would reject the third party because in the last lockout doing that "delayed things and did help reach any settlement".

And I'm guessing that neither side has the cajones to submit to binding arbitration because they could lose bigtime.



I still believe they will be smart enough not to mess this up completely. I believe we will see an agreement reached between February 18th and February 22nd, letting spring training start on about March 1st and a shortened schedule for ST games from Monday March 14th till Tuesday March 29th. Those 2 weeks of games and maybe 3 weeks of practice will be enough for hitters and too short for pitchers, hence a 28-man roster for April due to 2 extra pitchers being needed initially to build up arms. The last week of February would then create a major transaction frenzy, similar to the last week prior to the lockout.

While that may be the optimistic scenario, negotiations stalling like this is usually a necessary part of the script. There will be a week of bickering and complaining now and then back to the table around Valentine´s day with public pressure rising to get things done...



Later