Collective Bargaining Agreement

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mark Feinsand of MLB.com has an update:



https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-cba-negotiations?partnerId=zh-20211201-510323-mlb-1-A&qid=1026&utm_id=zh-20211201-510323-mlb-1-A&bt_ee=e92aiWhfKu5xKm%2BdGvMRfxZVTh4Xw76689fxh5Hcs0hr58NXQC8RQKgG8Xqzph%2F6&bt_ts=1638375504775The latest on the CBA negotiations

Sources said the MLBPA is seeking a significant reduction in revenue sharing, which would make it more difficult for small-market clubs to remain competitive. The same can be said for reducing the free-agent eligibility from six years of big league service time to five years.

MLB made three proposals last week that included a number of concessions for the players: • The elimination of the current qualifying offer system, which would remove Draft-pick compensation attached to any free agent • A Draft lottery similar to the one used by the NBA • The universal DH, which would add 15 everyday jobs for hitters in the NL; the average salary for a DH in 2021 was $9.2 million • An increase to the minimum player salary • An increase in the CBT threshold

[Ceetar]

I'm not sure what MLBPA's angle is in the revenue sharing bit? Is it the idea that if the Marlins aren't raking in 100 million from other teams, they'd have to spend money to make money? It's absolutely not true that it would be more difficult for small-market clubs to remain competitive and you can't assert that without citing real data (which, we/Feinsand doesn't have access to).



The same with the universal DH, there's definitely not "15 everyday jobs" necessarily, as every team doesn't just have a straight DH. It's not quite the "windfall" for the players that it's projected to be. Overtime, perhaps, as NL teams sign an additional hitter and then other teams have to sign an additional hitter to keep up, salaries should rise a bit. But that's going to be market driven and depends on the owners actually spending the money. it's not automatic. It's basically a bullshit promise by the owners "we promise to spend more money!" yeah? well do it. You don't get points for saying it.



This entire article actually, is very much owner-favored. I'd like to see some more balanced reporting.



He reports a lack of urgency from the player standpoint, but then quotes all the players as pointing out why the deadline is artificial. It's not Spring Training yet, certainly, why should the players back down on their position because of the owners threats? Make 'em follow through on their threat to shut down the sport.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I agree about the DH - it doesn't create more jobs. It creates different jobs. Wanna create more jobs? Expand the rosters. Otherwise it's a zero sum game; add a DH and lose a position somewhere else.

[bmfc1]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=82270 time=1638378954 user_id=68]
I agree about the DH - it doesn't create more jobs. It creates different jobs. Wanna create more jobs? Expand the rosters. Otherwise it's a zero sum game; add a DH and lose a position somewhere else.

[Fman99]

I hate the fucking designated hitter though. So there's that. I better write my Congressman.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Not that it'll ever be agreed to but MLB would do well to reduce roster sizes, or at least reduce the active guys... might help game length, would reward versatility and decision making. Like hockey they could carry 25, but have only 20 or 21 available for that day. The scratches can get seats in the stands. They still get paid and all

[kcmets]

We should have a contest thread guessing how many days after the stroke

of midnight tonight this whole thing will drag on.

[Benjamin Grimm]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-lockout-remains-likely-as-mlbpa-league-reportedly-hold-last-minute-talks-in-texas/MLB lockout remains likely as MLBPA, league reportedly hold last-minute talks in Texas

Here are a few items in the MLBPA's latest proposal, according to ESPN's Jesse Rogers: Free agency at age 29 1/2 or after five years of service time, whichever comes first. Players become arbitration-eligible after two seasons rather than three. Expanded 12-team postseason with leagues realigned to two divisions each. Luxury-tax threshold raised from $210 million to $240 million. Advertising patches on uniforms.

[smg58]

If owners tell their GMs that they want to spend a specific amount on payroll, then the more that goes to a DH, the less that goes to everybody else. It will not put more total money in the players' hands. I would happily negotiate that away to keep a sane playoff system and not have a draft lottery.



Revenue sharing should be based on how much money the teams bring in -- which would require the teams to open up their book to public scrutiny. Of course that should happen, and of course it won't.



I've argued before that 5.5 years would eliminate the service time manipulation at the beginning of the season, which would serve the interests of the sport.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd be okay with a draft lottery. The bottom 15 teams pick in random order, then the top 15 teams pick in random order.

[Ceetar]

I like the idea of the best team that didn't make the playoffs picks first.

[Benjamin Grimm]

That's a good idea. Then work your way down from there, and then go to the worst team that did make the playoffs and work your way up.

[Centerfield]

=Ceetar post_id=82295 time=1638388647 user_id=102]
I like the idea of the best team that didn't make the playoffs picks first.

[Edgy MD]

Changes in how you or I would like to see the draft conducted is one thing. What is a draft lottery supposed to do for the players, though?

[seawolf17]

I suppose it maybe, theoretically puts the small number of best incoming players in situations where maybe, theoretically, they can contribute sooner to a team that maybe, theoretically, could be on the cusp of a playoff spot.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: Changes in how you or I would like to see the draft conducted is one thing. What is a draft lottery supposed to do for the players, though?

Remove an incentive/justification for tanking.

[Edgy MD]

I guess that makes sense.



Ending the draft entirely would do that also, but I imagine that's not what the union wants.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'd be shocked if any real negotiating gets done between midnight and the day after the Super Bowl. Only when shit gets real will the sides begin to talk in earnest. There's no pressure to come to a deal now, on either side. Once Spring Training gets threatened (and the regular season beyond that), you'll see some movement.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: I guess that makes sense. Ending the draft entirely would do that also, but I imagine that's not what the union wants.

Nope. Unlike NFL/NBA where drafted players immediately brcome dues paying union members (and even there they still dont fully align), the interests of the MLBPA differ from the interests of 90% of draftees/minor leaguers.

[nymr83]

With regard to revenue sharing, if I were the union I would want it gone. If the Pitates owner cant remain profitable without the dollars, he will hopefully sell to someone who can - or better still for the players, sell to a rich guy willing to spend on salaries for his own fun not profit.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: Changes in how you or I would like to see the draft conducted is one thing. What is a draft lottery supposed to do for the players, though? Remove an incentive/justification for tanking.

Do MLB teams tank for the draft.



I don't think so. It's not like the NBA where you would likely get an instant impact starter.



Ys on the DH. I can't stand watching pitchers bat.



Agreed, a 27 man roster would create jobs and cut much of the nonsensical daily callups.

[Edgy MD]

=nymr83 post_id=82312 time=1638397999 user_id=54]
With regard to revenue sharing, if I were the union I would want it gone. If the Pitates owner cant remain profitable without the dollars, he will hopefully sell to someone who can - or better still for the players, sell to a rich guy willing to spend on salaries for his own fun not profit.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: Changes in how you or I would like to see the draft conducted is one thing. What is a draft lottery supposed to do for the players, though? Remove an incentive/justification for tanking. Do MLB teams tank for the draft. I don't think so. It's not like the NBA where you would likely get an instant impact starter. Ys on the DH. I can't stand watching pitchers bat. Agreed, a 27 man roster would create jobs and cut much of the nonsensical daily callups.

This year was a real eyebrow-raiser with four 100-loss teams, and two of those were 110-loss teams, so there certainly is suspicion of tanking.

[Frayed Knot]

=nymr83 post_id=82312 time=1638397999 user_id=54]
With regard to revenue sharing, if I were the union I would want it gone. If the Pitates owner cant remain profitable without the dollars, he will hopefully sell to someone who can - or better still for the players, sell to a rich guy willing to spend on salaries for his own fun not profit.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Guest

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: =ashie62 post_id=82313 time=1638399071 user_id=90] =Centerfield post_id=82302 time=1638391640 user_id=65] Remove an incentive/justification for tanking.

Do MLB teams tank for the draft.



I don't think so. It's not like the NBA where you would likely get an instant impact starter.



Ys on the DH. I can't stand watching pitchers bat.



Agreed, a 27 man roster would create jobs and cut much of the nonsensical daily callups.

[Centerfield]

Also, if they want to challenge the 6 year eligibility for FA, and reduce it to 5, we may be locked out for a long time.

[Frayed Knot]

Here are a few items in the MLBPA's latest proposal, according to ESPN's Jesse Rogers:

Free agency at age 29 1/2 or after five years of service time, whichever comes first. -- Something is going to change on how FAs are determined and it's going to involve age in some form. I'm not going to sweat the details on this one.



Players become arbitration-eligible after two seasons rather than three. -- =#0000FF]Most already are after two-plus seasons and changes in recent CBAs have seen it creep closer to two-even. The advantage of how they work it now is that there's no specific cut-off where teams know in advance how they can manipulate an extra year. Calling it two years would put this back in but there are probably more details than we're seeing now



Expanded 12-team postseason with leagues realigned to two divisions each. -- =#0000FF]I'm very against expanding playoffs but would have to see this realignment scheme



Luxury-tax threshold raised from $210 million to $240 million. -- =#0000FF]Fine, whatever.



Advertising patches on uniforms. -- =#0000FF]Is neither side Ever going to say 'enough is enough'? I mean, I know the answer to that but is there really no way to preserve tradition and make $30mil rather than look like a NASCAR driver so you can get $35?

[Ceetar]

I'm fine with advertising patches, advertise anywhere for all I care. For one ,the uniforms are already rather prominently an advertisement for a clothing brand, and everything else is splattered with ads. It'd be cool if there could be a little bit cleaner of a game entirely, where every shot wasn't sponsored, but not cashing in on the last two or three spots just seems silly at this point. And I'd rather teams focused on the advertising revenue than the ticket/beer revenue.

[Edgy MD]

Also a wonderful way to incentivize teams to try to stay competitive and out of last place — promotion and relegation.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Also a wonderful way to incentivize teams to try to stay competitive and out of last place — promotion and relegation.

Also, I'd like to see more pepper games.