"How Bad Are They?"

[Vic Sage]

how about scoring 5 and giving up 3? That works too.

[G-Fafif]

7-22 since May 22.

20-40 since April 16.

[Centerfield]

I keep rooting for them to win, but if they win, then they might end up on the fringes of contention by the trade deadline, and hold onto pieces. Like Familia. And then fall apart. That would be the worst thing.

But I can't really root for them to lose. I mean, what if they pull off an amazing run?

All this indecision is terrible.

[G-Fafif]

Clarity is a tempting siren, as if 7-22, 20-40 and 31-41 aren't blaring plenty loud already.

[Centerfield]

I guess so.

I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear.

And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season...

[MFS62]

Centerfield wrote: I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear. And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season...

That's why "bad" isn't the word I'd use yet.
For now, its just "frustrating".

Later

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear. And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season...

Teams become other teams so fast sometimes. they turn corners. Smith and Rosario could suddenly be cornerstones. It could happen tonight.

Maybe Coors was an outlier and the bullpen/pitching just wasn't ready for it, and it was a minor blip and this is the start of that corner turning. Like the corner they turned in 2015. It wasn't just Cespedes, as it took a few days for Cespedes to take flight.

57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd, if they start now. The Nationals are flawed and broken too.

They're really not this bad. But they've dug a big enough hole that a 49-42 'solid' finish isn't going to do it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: 57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd,....

I think it is. It's a 100 win pace over a full season.

[Centerfield]

It's absurd, but it's certainly possible. If everything clicks for this team, they can play at that pace.

It would be absurdly good given their level of talent, but they've had an absurdly bad record given their level of talent, so they've already proven that absurd is within their wheelhouse.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: 57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd,.... I think it is. It's a 100 win pace over a full season.

But it's not a full season. It's a little more than a half season. Part of the difficulty of 100 wins is going through the ups and downs and injuries of 162. You don't need to be as good over 91.

The alternative is going on a binge like the 11-1 and then just playing to roughly their ability the rest of the way. if they win 15 of their next 20 they only need to go on like a 96 win pace to get to 88.

[Guest 41Forever]

What are you guys, non-believers? Of course they're going to come roaring back when Noah and Cespedes are healthy. Cespedes and Nimmo in the same lineup? Opposing pitchers will be looking for Alex Torres caps. Heck, the first 20 rows in the outfield seats are going to be wearing Alex Torres caps. NL East teams will be demanding a mercy rule before long.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I can't drink enough to believe. This team is absolutely pathetic.

At this point, I simply hope they can stay ahead of the depleted Marlins.

[metirish]

Is this rock bottom?....it sure seems this way and that is sad.

[dgwphotography]

What's sad is that I don't think this is rock bottom

[metirish]

dgwphotography wrote: What's sad is that I don't think this is rock bottom

Yeah, really...

[Lefty Specialist]

Ya gotta believe that this is not rock bottom. That'll occur when they slip behind the Marlins (who are more or less trying to lose as an organization) into last place.

So it's not rock-bottom, but rock-bottom can be seen from here.

[RealityChuck]

The team's worst month in 1962: April. 3-13 .188
The Mets in June 2018: 4-17 .190

The Mets need one victory this week to (barely) beat that record.

[MFS62]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Ya gotta believe that this is not rock bottom. That'll occur when they slip behind the Marlins (who are more or less trying to lose as an organization) into last place. So it's not rock-bottom, but rock-bottom can be seen from here.

If they keep this up, pretty soon they'll have to look up to look down.

Later

[Ceetar]

We're so far from rock bottom. There's a lot of down to go. even if you're just talking about 2018, if they start gutting this team, or worse, promote the #brand experiment in AA.

They're not actually this bad and some of these players are quite good. The right retooling around Manny Machado has them very strong contenders as soon as next year.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Foli, Strawberry, Wilson.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Foli, Strawberry, Wilson.

what are random meaningless players from the 80s?



I'll take 'Beer Words' for $200 Alex.

[Vic Sage]

Foli, Strawberry, Wilson.

A: "Chicott, Foli, Strawberry, Abner, Wilson"
Q: "What are the former Mets #1 picks?"

That's 3 total whiffs, 1 major league player, and 1 all-star. I thought this was pretty bad track record and then i compared it to other teams' #1 picks, and you can see just how often they don't work out for other franchises, too.

The Mets are one of 3 teams that have had 5 #1 picks. The others:
Houston: Bannister, P / Nevin, 3b / Correa, SS / Appel, P / Aiken, P
San Diego: Ivie, C/ D.Roberts, 3b / Almon, SS / Benes, P / Bush, ss

3 Teams with 4 #1 picks:
Seattle: Chambers, OF / Moore, P/ GriffeyJr, OF / A-Rod, SS
Pittsburgh: King, 3b / Benson, P / Bullington, P / Cole, P
Tampa: J.Hamilton, of / D. Young, of / D.Price, P / T.Beckham, ss

Seattle got 2 HOFers out of their 4 picks, but i don't know that the Mets were appreciably worse than any of the other teams in the results of their #1 picks.

on edit: actually, after adding up the WAR for each of these picks, the teams rank as follows:

Seattle: 229+ (4 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players)
TB: 70+ (4 players, all with +WAR)
Hou: 62+ (5 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players)
SD: 43.6 (5 players, with +WAR coming from 4 players)
Pitt: 43.6 (4 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players)
Mets: 43.6 (5 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players)

by this ranking, the Mets actually were the least successful drafting 1st, when you consider they had the most chances, but got the least +WAR, from the fewest players.

[seawolf17]

BUT Foli was in the Staub deal in 1972, so there's that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

At least the Mets didn't trade Nimmo for McCutcheon.

[seawolf17]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: At least the Mets didn't trade Nimmo for McCutcheon.

Yet. Don't give Sandy any ideas.

[ashie62]

Better be careful when SF comes to town

[Zvon]

[tweet:csihvf1k]

[/tweet:csihvf1k]

[Lefty Specialist]

Hate to say it, but I've pretty much stopped watching.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Me too. The money I spent on Extra Innings this season is pretty much a wasted expenditure.

[TransMonk]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The money I spent on Extra Innings this season is pretty much a wasted expenditure.

Yup. I've also vowed not to purchase next season. I'll probably get the internet package, but hold off on the TV.