"How Bad Are They?"

[MFS62]

Right.
You have to be flexible based on the roster you have.
Tony LaRussa might have kept his starters in longer, or pitching changes to a minimum, with this bullpen.

Later

[HahnSolo]

To me the season turned that gay dame in St. Lou where Lagares lost what should have been the final out in extra innings. Just felt like a lot of good mojo ended there.

[Centerfield]

If we have to pick a defining moment, for me it was that 8th inning meltdown against Washington. They lost three straight series after that game and have never been the same.

But really, this season was lost in the off-season when we failed to recognize how far off we were and brought in middling talent.

[Guest 41Forever]

I think the season turned for good with the sweep of the Yankees that started on June 8, and with what will forever be known as "The Brandon Nimmo Game."

[Lefty Specialist]

Centerfield wrote: If we have to pick a defining moment, for me it was that 8th inning meltdown against Washington. They lost three straight series after that game and have never been the same.

This x1000. They were 6 outs away from going 12-1 and thrashing the Nationals. But right there all the flaws of the team became exposed all at once. I think that game rattled them and they've never gotten things on track since.

I guess they'd have come back to the pack eventually anyway, but they seemed to nosedive from then on.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Other than one small spike in mid-May, this team has been on a steady downhill trajectory.

[seawolf17]

Well, when you put it in terms of wins and losses, no, it really doesn't look good. But it's really the thought that counts. The emotional wins.

[HahnSolo]

The only thing with the Nationals game is that they got them back the exact same way two nights later. Maybe to me that felt like a push.

Surely there have been plenty of losses to choose from, but if they won the Lagares no-catch game (sorry to keep harping on this one) they'd have been 16-7 and would have won that series. Including that game they've gone 12-25 since.

[ashie62]

We will truly know how bad they are if Callaway gets canned in-season

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Centerfield wrote: But really, this season was lost in the off-season when we failed to recognize how far off we were and brought in middling talent.

Yyyyyep.

Other contenders with spending money/capital load for bear, and carry extra ammo. We buy a used gun and hope it's loaded.

[bmfc1]

You don't trade deGrom and Noah, they are under k and have reasonable salaries, you build around them now. That means a solid bullpen, other good starters so that bullpen is rested and strong defense. Sandy did NONE of these. There seems to be one lefty reliever in the entire organization (that can't be true but it seems to be); he resigns Bruce when there were better options if he read the market properly he signs Vargas when Arrieta was there. These are just examples of his ineptitude. The only good thing about this season is that Sandy has been exposed and will not be back--what? Heyman says that Sandy is under k through 2019? Ah hell, the Wilpons aren't going to pay him not work and Ken Rosenthal said yesterday that Sandy is "owed" the opportunity to rebuild.

[ashie62]

The names Noah Syndergaard and Estevan Florial will get batted around in another six weeks near the trade deadline

[Edgy MD]

I doubt it.

[TransMonk]

I would love to build around deGrom and Noah (as well as Conforto, Nimmo and even Rosario). But, I'll echo that the Bruce, Frazier and Vargas moves were bad ones considering that SS, 1B and C had no reliable options for 2018 and will still be question marks in 2019.

Sandy keeps constructing rosters that can win if EVERYTHING goes right. This season had big potential if Matz, Wheeler and/or Harvey could have gotten their shit together, if Rosario and/or Smith were ready to be an everyday and every at-bat threat, if Cespedes, Thor, d'Arnuad, etc. could stay healthy. But I think we all knew at the beginning of the season that the likelihood of ALL of that happening would be minuscule. I, for one, am not surprised at all that after 60 games the 2018 Mets have the same record as the 2017 Mets. They were essentially built the same way. And, hey, it worked in 2015 with some major help at the deadline - but I don't feel it is a sustainable model for success.

I haven't seen any sign that 2019 will be any better and feel like we are wasting good seasons from deGrom instead of taking advantage of them.

[batmagadanleadoff]

How bad are they? 16-33 since "the streak". Worst record in baseball in that span.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I no longer care to watch this team. They are pathetically inept.

[G-Fafif]

So bad that the 2018 Mets are the third club in franchise history to fall from at least ten games over .500 to at least three games under .500 in the same season, joining the 1991 Mets and 2010 Mets in this particular lane of infamy. The 2018 Mets raced high above .500 sooner and plunged uncomfortably beneath it sooner than their unfortunately descending predecessors. That's what 15-28 will do immediately after you've started 12-2. Honorable (?) mention to the 1971 and 1976 Mets who turned similar spikes into precipitous in-season drops. In their cases, the final record didn't suffer nearly so much. Details here.

Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And rather quickly, too.

[MFS62]

G-Fafif wrote: Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season.

Records are made to be broken.
So is my spirit.

Later

[ashie62]

I had someone say to me that tradewise Noah is "damaged goods."

[Zvon]

MFS62 wrote: Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season. Records are made to be broken. So is my spirit. Later

Ha. 10 over, 10 under now.
Tonight we turn it around.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I spent three hours at the Rocky Mount Mils, which contains 5 craft breweries and I still lack your orange and blue optimism.

It will be a small miracle if this team ends up 81-81 for the season. I am expecting much worse a (72-90) is more likely in my view and I won't be shocked if they finish worse than that. The great start (11-1) was an aberration; this team is not remotely that good.

[smg58]

The preview of the tonight's game on my Yahoo app said that the Mets' batting average over the last 10 games is the lowest that any team has had over any 10-game stretch since the live-ball era began in 1920.

[Zvon]

Rockin' Doc wrote: I spent three hours at the Rocky Mount Mils, which contains 5 craft breweries and I still lack your orange and blue optimism. It will be a small miracle if this team ends up 81-81 for the season. I am expecting much worse a (72-90) is more likely in my view and I won't be shocked if they finish worse than that. The great start (11-1) was an aberration; this team is not remotely that good.

I won't disagree.

[Zvon]

Good for three!!!!!!

[fimg=400:q6yz5lwh]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df3DrX0UEAAxQqB.jpg[/fimg:q6yz5lwh]

[Zvon]

Four runs! Count 'em!

[Zvon]

Who knew?



Good game

[Zvon]

Oh great, I was in the wrong thread all night. lolol.
Trying to cover all Mets social media outlets at the same time is a tough gig.
Can you fix this Ed?

[smg58]

The starting pitching is trending upward, at least. Matz very quietly has a nearly identical ERA and WHIP to Jake Arrieta. Lugo is auditioning for a spot on next year's rotation, and while his last start wasn't so good, the start against the Yankees was super. Vargas (like seemingly most of the team) is still working his way back from an injury, but he has been good more often than not over the last month or so.

Familia comes back today, and that can't possibly hurt. The team only has three trustworthy relievers right now even with Familia, but Gsellman and Swarzak were both sharp yesterday and are decent bets to remain so if they don't get overworked.

Other than some injuries, I have no good explanation for the offense. Mesoraco has a .214 BABIP since he got here, and Reyes (.169!) and Guillorme (.196) have actually fared worse than that, but most of the team is performing close to career norms. Maybe Conforto hits like last year the rest of the way. Maybe the couple days off does Bruce some good. Maybe Cespedes shows up at some point. Maybe Cabrera can snap out of it, assuming he's not playing hurt too. Maybe Rosario actually learns something about hitting. Or, maybe not. The only firm grounds for optimism is that there is only one direction for them to go right now.

[Lefty Specialist]

Unfortunately, scoring 5 runs and only allowing one is not a repeatable formula for this team. Most nights they struggle just to get 5 HITS.