Hall of Fame ballot

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

The 2017 Hall of Fame ballot was announced today, with a handful of Metly options.

Jeff Bagwell
Casey Blake
Barry Bonds
Pat Burrell
Orlando Cabrera
Mike Cameron
Roger Clemens
J.D. Drew
Carlos Guillen
Vladimir Guerrero
Trevor Hoffman
Jeff Kent
Derrek Lee
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Melvin Mora
Mike Mussina
Magglio Ordonez
Jorge Posada
Tim Raines
Manny Ramirez
Edgar Renteria
Arthur Rhodes
Ivan Rodriguez
Freddy Sanchez
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Lee Smith
Sammy Sosa
Matt Stairs
Jason Varitek
Billy Wagner
Tim Wakefield
Larry Walker

[Benjamin Grimm]

If Melvin Mora doesn't get in, I'll never eat in this restaurant again!

[Guest d'Kong76]

Grumpy HOF comment: I don't get who decides or why some of these guys end up
even for consideration. Casey Blake? He never attended one all-star game unless it
was with a ticket...

Grumpy HOF comment: Can someone just decide if you're tainted you can't get in, or
just put all the tainted ones in and be done with all that?

[Edgy MD]

With regards to comment one, nobody really decides. They have a rule that if you get 10 years, you make the ballot.

To the extent that there is deciding going on, they have an addendum—call it the Ron Hodges Rule—that if you somehow manage to log 10 big league years or more while exclusively riding the bench (whether as a reserve offensive player or a back-end reliever on the pitching staff), you get eliminated without ever making the ballot.

I don't think that addendum tends to apply to more than, perhaps, one player per year—usually backup catchers, I would guess.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, a player who meets the basic requirements essentially has to give them a reason to be NOT included in order to not make the list.


This may be the last best shot for Tim Raines as all the new ones are either not overwhelmingly worthy or are 'tainted' to one degree or another and most of the returnees are as arguable as him.
Probably a good year to be Jeff Bagwell too.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Edgy MD wrote: With regards to comment one, nobody really decides. They have a rule that if you get 10 years, you make the ballot.

Grumpy HOF comment: That's a dumb rule, which I suppose is my point that I
didn't clearly make but geez if you're not an all-star you're not a HOF'r and putting
people on the ballot like that is a waste of time and energy. Mr. Met has more HOF
credentials than Casey Blake.

[Edgy MD]

Does he ever!

[fimg=700]http://mascothalloffame.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ExteriorRender.jpg[/fimg]

[MFS62]

The guy I remember who fit that description was a futility infielder who played in the AL from the mid 50's to mid 60's named Sammy Esposito. He hit a little over .200, but Phil Rizzuto used to talk about him all the time saying he "one of those good guys to have around".

Later

[RealityChuck]

d'Kong76 wrote: With regards to comment one, nobody really decides. They have a rule that if you get 10 years, you make the ballot. Grumpy HOF comment: That's a dumb rule, which I suppose is my point that I didn't clearly make but geez if you're not an all-star you're not a HOF'r and putting people on the ballot like that is a waste of time and energy. Mr. Met has more HOF credentials than Casey Blake.

It's part of the basic agreement with the Player's Association, who wanted a simple set of criteria so no one felt snubbed.

Personally, it no big deal. The players get some egoboo, but they know they're not getting in. It's like when I made the preliminary ballot for the Nebula award -- nice to see, but I wasn't going to even be a finalist.

[Edgy MD]

Should we pollarize this thread?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: Should we pollarize this thread?

Please do! I couldn't figure out how to go beyond 10 spots on the poll.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Poll is only allowing me to select one choice, and if I can ONLY pick Matt Stairs, then Orlando Cabrera is gonna be rightfully pissed.

[Edgy MD]

I'll fix that nonsense.

OE: Fix't. Please edit your ballots accordingly.

[seawolf17]

Voted.

Remember we have to post if we voted so we know a percentage of actual voters.

Bagwell
Bonds (yeah, I did it)
Guerrero
Martinez
Raines
Ramirez
Rodriguez
Stairs (he's not ACTUALLY a HOFer, and I know that. But he's one of my all-time favorites.)
Walker

Someone with a convincing case for Hoffman could swing my tenth vote, and so could someone for Jeff Kent even though I don't like him.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Posted.

Vlad, Bagwell, Raines, Hoffman, Martinez.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I made an initial slate of six, holding my nose while doing so:
Bonds
Clemens
Martinez
Raines
Rodriguez
Schilling

edit: overlooked Manny. on now. Also voted Si on Guererro.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Guest

[ashie62]

Vladimir Guerrero
Ivan Rodriguez
Barry Bonds
Edgar Martinez

[Zvon]

Done.

Bags, Hoffman, Raines, Shilling, Lee Smith.


Raines getting aLotta luv.

[Centerfield]

It's getting so I'm having trouble remembering who was legitimately linked to steroids and who was rumor only.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I voted for Raines and Guerrero. A lot of these guys had the majority of their career after I stopped paying attention, so if I overlooked anyone then too bad for them!

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I voted for Raines and Guerrero. A lot of these guys had the majority of their career after I stopped paying attention, so if I overlooked anyone then too bad for them!

J.D. Drew had this great cameo in the movie Twins.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Bagwell
Vlad
Hoffman
Kent
McGriff
Raines
Mussina

Eff those other guys.

[G-Fafif]

Still begrumped that Fonzie's twelve years, one All-Star appearance, one Silver Slugger and general awesomeness wasn't enough to merit him a spot on one Hall of Fame ballot. Not a vote, but a spot.

Still enough in love with Melvin that I'd probably vote for him if given the chance in real life.

[metsmarathon]

bagwell
bonds
clemens
guerrerro
martinez
raines
ramirez
rodriguez
schilling
walker

i struggle to pull the trigger for mussina and sheffield. it's easier to not check a box next to sammy sosa's name.

[bmfc1]

Bagwell, Guerrero, Raines, Rodriguez.

I have a tough time distinguishing between relievers (why Hoffman but not Smith or Wagner, or any combination thereof?).

[MFS62]

Bags
Vlad
Hoffman
Kent
Manny
Pudge
Smith
Sosa
Wagner
Walker

And, basically, I'd vote for anyone not named Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

Tough to exclude Barry yet make a case for including Manny.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: Tough to exclude Barry yet make a case for including Manny.

Bonds was an asshole about it. He elicited anger when he was discussed.
It was always "Manny being Manny" and brought a smile to everyone's face.
Plus, he's my homey from upper Manhattan (Washington Heights). That gets him my love.

And the vote has always been about who the voter thinks should get into the Hall.

Later

[Chad ochoseis]

Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Guerrero, Ramirez, Walker

I don't like the fact that players used steroids in the '90s. Given that MLB turned a blind eye to it until they were shamed into enforcing their rules by the Mitchell Report though, I wouldn't make steroids a complete bar to HOF admission.

The HOF includes sportsmanship as a criterion, and I think of sportsmanship as a deciding factor in borderline cases like Andre Dawson. Steroids = poor sportsmanship. So I'm fine with keeping a borderline HOFer like Mark McGwire out. But Bonds, Ramirez, and Clemens aren't borderline cases.

Tim Raines isn't on my ballot. He was really good. But the way you get to be the second best leadoff hitter of your era is by not being quite as good as the better middle of the order hitters.

Just for grins, I compared Larry Walker's batting stats outside Coors Field to Raines' total career stats. Walker still comes out slightly better than Raines. And this comparison puts Walker at a huge disadvantage by removing his home stats from age 28-36, which would have likely been his most productive numbers no matter where he played. I didn't see Walker play enough to say anything about his defense, but BBRef gives him a much higher dWAR, and he did win 7 Gold Gloves (for what that's worth). My memory of Raines is that he could make the catches, but had a weak arm. Both of them had long careers, and both of them were injury-prone. So I can't see voting for Raines and not Walker.

	Walker Excluding Coors	Raines
PA	5529	10359
AB	4771	8872
R	800	1571
H	1346	2605
HR	229	170
RBI	790	980
SB	156	808
CS	60	146
BB	627	1330
BA	.282	.294
OBP	.372	.385
SLG	.501	.425

I could be convinced on Pudge. And Edgar Martinez.

[Gwreck]

Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Guerrero
Martinez
Mussina
Raines
Ramirez
Rodriguez
Walker


I would have also voted for Curt Schilling if room allowed on the ballot, no matter what a colossal idiot he is.