Carlos Redux?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Incredible.

[Gwreck]

Ken Rosenthal now claiming the Mets backed out due to concerns over Gomez' hip.

I also put this mess on the media. Also, I remain confused how Flores knew he was being traded if this was going down during the game.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Hell, even Crash Davis got notes delivered to him in the dugout. Not surprised Wilmer knew this shit around the time we all thought we did, too.

I wasn't sure why the Brewers would make this trade. I think reality, sadly, makes a bit more sense. GIVE ME CESPEDES NOW!!!!

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: The earlier link to the report on MLB.com has totally disappeared as if they think this is a way for them to pretend that they didn't report this thing as a done deal hours ago. Yeah, and Sherman too.

Somebody should have told Tom Brady how to make e-info disappear. He wouldn't have had to destroy his phone.

Later

[ashie62]

Just trade Colon.

[MFS62]

Just a case of epidemic premature exultation.

Later

[Centerfield]

Oh well. We battled.

[Lefty Specialist]

You know, just when you think things can't get any weirder, they do.

[duan]

Christ it's a pretty sorry mess.
The issue to me is that you've only got Gomez for 15 months, and he's signed at VERY reasonable money, while hip problems can cause precipitous declines (see Albert Belle) normally it's seen as an attritional problem that worsens over time, so now they waved the biggest RED FLAG over him that anyone's ever seen and potentially damaged his future earnings and so on.
Lord knows Boras is likely compiling the dossier to disprove it now.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm surprised at how NOT secret clubs are at this sort of stuff.

I mean I know they've got every reporter in the world sniffing around this kind of thing, especially during this week of the year. But at heart this should be a GM-to-GM negotiation which, unless no-trade clauses and the like are involved, shouldn't require that agents be kept informed or that strategic leaks need to be doled out to the press as some sort of catalyst to get the deal done. Instead, with the rare exception (maybe Reyes/Tulo qualifies), deals that are even remotely a surprise by the time it all goes down -- or, in the case of this one, doesn't go down -- just don't seem to happen these days to the point where the press, and by extension the fans, feel they have enough information they're confident in declaring still ongoing discussions as done deals.

[seawolf17]

I'm angry, but I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be angry at. I'm directing it at Joel Sherman for now, because as far as I can tell, he started the whole thing.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure, but I think a Milwaukee reporter declared the deal done first.

I would speculate that he got it because somebody in the Brewers front office told Gomez the news when he was on the plane, and Gomez sat on it for about two seconds.

I want to blame the Mets booth for getting all blabby, but I have to wonder how the MLB.com editors can look at themselves in the mirror this morning. If they can run the story without getting a confirmation from 24-7 Jay Horwitz, what more authoritative source so the piggybacking outlets have to confirm it with before they all fall like dominoes? Should they all have to get a confirmation from an authorized Mets source before giving a peep?

It's a good time to tip a hat to Bernard Shaw � the CNN anchor who refused to report Florida won by Gore back in 2000, when everybody else ran with it.

[Guest themetfairy]

Where was Jay Horwitz when all this was going down? Isn't it his job to set the record straight about such things?

[TransMonk]

I'm not angry. The media jumped the gun. Wasn't the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last. If anything, I'm relieved the Mets didn't trade for a potentially injured player.

I'd be more angry if I was a Brewers fan.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure, but I think a Milwaukee reporter declared the deal done first. I would speculate that he got it because somebody in the Brewers front office told Gomez the news when he was on the plane, and Gomez sat on it for about two seconds.

Quite likely. Although that raises the question as to why the Brewer exec decided to blab about something not yet done. This is what I mean by the lack of secrecy in these deals. It seems to me that if I were a front office dude I'd want as few people in on even the existence of a potential deal until it was signed, sealed, and delivered.

I want to blame the Mets booth for getting all blabby

But at that point they're just commenting on what it already public news so they'd be negligent if not at least mentioning it. Sure they reported it as done as everyone else did but, again, they were just repeating what had already been said.

... but I have to wonder how the MLB.com editors can look at themselves in the mirror this morning. If they can run the story without getting a confirmation from 24-7 Jay Horwitz, what more authoritative source so the piggybacking outlets have to confirm it with before they all fall like dominoes? Should they all have to get a confirmation from an authorized Mets source before giving a peep?

I'm sure there were the usual "neither team has confirmed this story yet" qualifiers even as the rest of the story made it seem as if uniform measurements were already being made.
Ultimately it's the news culture now where the big boys [those under the FOX, ESPN, CBS umbrellas] are fighting to out-scoop each other (even though ESPN will ultimately take credit for everything anyway) while holding off those uppity internet dudes at the same time.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Here's my theory.

The first I sensed there was anything going on was when the Mets beat guys -- Rubin, Carig, etc. -- all at once and just as the game was beginning -- tweeted that the Mets were at work on a deal for a player the fans would like. These local beat reporters since they travel with the team and do game stories, are not typically in touch with the agents that the Shermans, the Heymans and the Rosenthals are. Those guys have typically been the ones breaking the big trades, not the locals.

So the local beat guys were fed something at the park.

Within the hour those same local beaters were informed the target was Gomez and this idea that the Brewers always liked Flores was out there. By then the word was well traveled, Sherman and the Milwaukee guys etc etc were all on the scent etc etc. and they sussed it all out.

only, as we know now Sandy at some point rejected the agreed to deal because of Gomez injury.

So we know Sandy wouldn;t have told the beaters anything. They hate him anyway and he typically is tightlipped.

Who would know the Mets were a making a deal for Gomez? His agent, that's who. Who's his agent? Scott Boras. Who wouldn't leak that his client was hurt? His agent. Where was Scott Boras last night? At the Mets game (Howie mentioned this during the broadcast last night).

[Gwreck]

I still don't think the Flores issue has been addressed. This happened during a game - whoever is telling Flores he was traded during a game (and it certianly wasn't Terry or Sandy) is a douchebag. Put your phone away and concentrate on the game, idiot.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Tracky's report this morning said fans sitting in the front row informed Flores of the deal.

[Ceetar]

Gwreck wrote: Ken Rosenthal now claiming the Mets backed out due to concerns over Gomez' hip. I also put this mess on the media. Also, I remain confused how Flores knew he was being traded if this was going down during the game.

Flores found out from the fans. Some yelled it to him as he came off the field, plus the standing ovation.


At least Sherman got the info out first though, that's what matters here.

[Centerfield]

I give everyone a pass. Media did their job, the booth discussed what was going on. Terry did the right thing in trying to win the game, and the Mets did their job passing on a guy if their medical staff gave them the thumbs down. Maybe the front office could have told Terry to pull Wilmer just in case? Whatever. Not a big deal. A strange night but I don't think anyone really is to blame.

I wonder though, when you have health issues for both Wheeler and Gomez, why not look at medical records very early in the process? I mean, find out what you are getting before you bid.

I'm disappointed. Gomez would have been a great pickup. Maybe in 25 years when Wilmer is being enshrined we'll look back and say "OMG CAN YOU IMAGINE IF WE HAD TRADED HIM FOR A YEAR AND A HALF OF CARLOS GOMEZ, OMG LOLZ"

[Edgy MD]

Some stories in my Yahoo news feed this morning:

[list:2dhxarok][*:2dhxarok]Mets Trade for Another All-Star[/*:m:2dhxarok]
[*:2dhxarok]A Look at New Brewers Pitcher Zach Wheeler[/*:m:2dhxarok]
[*:2dhxarok]Britney Spears Flashes a Huge Smile While Doing a Perfect Split in a Tiny Bikini[/*:m:2dhxarok][/list:u:2dhxarok]

[Gwreck]

At the risk of sounding heartless, I am feeling a lot less sorry for Wilmer Flores if his reaction was solely to fans telling him he had been traded. Seriously, what professional player actually listens to people in the stands?

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: I'm surprised at how NOT secret clubs are at this sort of stuff. I mean I know they've got every reporter in the world sniffing around this kind of thing, especially during this week of the year. But at heart this should be a GM-to-GM negotiation which, unless no-trade clauses and the like are involved, shouldn't require that agents be kept informed or that strategic leaks need to be doled out to the press as some sort of catalyst to get the deal done. Instead, with the rare exception (maybe Reyes/Tulo qualifies), deals that are even remotely a surprise by the time it all goes down -- or, in the case of this one, doesn't go down -- just don't seem to happen these days to the point where the press, and by extension the fans, feel they have enough information they're confident in declaring still ongoing discussions as done deals.

I mean, they leak stuff all the time for various reasons, so it doesn't seem like they really care about that. Plus they seemingly use it for negotiation purposes.

But also once it gets further along, other people are always involved. "Hey intern, go pull the Wheeler medicals and fax it to the brewers" Intern goes to tech guy, tech guy pulls it up and prints it. Chats about it to his cubicle neighbor. All those guys could talk. Hell, if I was a reporter I'd reach out to all the interns and grease their palms a little. "Hey, I'll put a good word in for you at 'my paper/ESPN' when you graduate, keep me in the loop"

Hell, you might be able to read a changed_by date in a database and see which players are drawing interest.

Centerfield wrote: I wonder though, when you have health issues for both Wheeler and Gomez, why not look at medical records very early in the process? I mean, find out what you are getting before you bid.

Maybe they did, and that's why Collins had no idea. You can't look at medical records until you agree on which players to look out (as reported, Herrera might have been being discussed) so "Okay, those players, now let's see" and that leaks as "deal is done, players decided".

From there, there might have been other throw in players to compensate for red flags in medical reports, hence the deal not being done. "Oh, that hip? sorry, no Flores for that. How about this guy?"

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

This story kind of reflects the wider culture. Of course an old-school guy like Collins isn't going to be aware of trade until he gets a message from the front office. And of course, the younger players are going to know the news (or the "news") from social media within seconds.

[TransMonk]

Gwreck wrote: At the risk of sounding heartless, I am feeling a lot less sorry for Wilmer Flores if his reaction was solely to fans telling him he had been traded. Seriously, what professional player actually listens to people in the stands?

Why wouldn't he? The news he was getting from them was the same news that EVERYONE else outside the stadium was pronouncing as fact.

Plus, Wilmer's reaction could have just as easily been out of confusion rather than confirmation. He's a dude who has been performing below expectations, has gone from an everyday guy to a platoon player (if not a bench player) in the past week, he has thousands of fans cheering for him and telling him (probably vague) things about his future (in a language that is most likely not his native tongue) but has not heard anything from the club that signed him as a 16 year old kid seven years ago. I'm guessing Wilmer didn't know what to think, thus some of the reaction. Who knows?

[metsmarathon]

i'm trying to figure out how this is a #LOLMETS situation.

help me out.

1. mets work out tentative deal for player involving players.
2. player(s) continue to play becuase deal not yet official
3. social media reports trade as complete when trade is not yet complete.
4. mets player continues to play after hearing social media reports.
5. trade falls apart, possibly before 3, maybe before 4.
6. mets get blamed for not pulling player due to his hearing of social media reports that player was traded.

are you fucking kidding me?

imagine hte outcry if hte mets pulled a player out of a game because social media had reported that the player had been traded, when in actuality, the trade was never consummated. it would be epic. truly epic.

fuck this noise. lgm! lgwf!

[seawolf17]

• Britney Spears Flashes a Huge Smile While Doing a Perfect Split in a Tiny Bikini

Edgy MD wrote:

[fman]PICTURES OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN[/fman]

[Frayed Knot]

metsmarathon wrote: 2. player(s) continue to play becuase deal not yet official

This was the only odd part as usually players who are even in discussion for trades are either held out or pulled out of games for fear of an in-game injury scuttling the plans of the men working the phones.
That Terry wasn't informed (acc to him) and therefore Flores wasn't pulled probably should have been the first clue that maybe the deal wasn't as far along or as solid as most if not all of the reports indicated.
But of course it's easier to paint Terry as clueless and/or the front office as heartless than it is to assume that 267 different media reports are inaccurate (even if most of them are merely copying each other and giving the illusion of multiple confirmations).

[Edgy MD]

metsmarathon wrote: are you fucking kidding me? imagine hte outcry if hte mets pulled a player out of a game because social media had reported that the player had been traded, when in actuality, the trade was never consummated. it would be epic. truly epic. fuck this noise. lgm! lgwf!

Preach.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Don't look now but reports out of Milwaukee suggesting the medical issue came up only after Brewers refused to pay some of Go-go's salary.