Bye-bye Bartolo?

[Lefty Specialist]

Ashie62 wrote: Wtf is wrong with Bartolo Colon???

I would miss this.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

That tire is certainly not bald.

[ashie62]

Ok.. I guess he eats more than innings...

More than a few boilers on this board also lol...

[Zvon]

Ashie62 wrote: Wtf is wrong with Bartolo Colon??? He is still very effective, durable and cheap, yes, cheap.

Nothing wrong with him. And I'm thrilled with what we have gotten out of him. Just not a guy that excites me in the long run.

A go-for-it move would have involved not going the cheap route.

[Edgy MD]

There was nothing cheap about the route. I don't understand. They invested, and it's paying off. Which move was preferable?

I mean, he's not a guy that excites you in the long run. Well, me neither, but great, because they didn't sign him for the long run.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

"Cheap route" is not terribly descriptive. But I think he's saying we could have been in it for the presumed high-ceiling difference makers (Tanaka, Ellsbury, etc... or a high-stakes-gambling sort of trade) instead of for solid role-fillers.

[Centerfield]

I didn't like the second year at the time. I would have preferred to give more money (say $12 million) for a shorter commitment. But in fact that second year may be the reason we get some value for him now.

If they are able to turn Colon into a good LF or SS, they should jump at it now. And if they do that, this will have been a great move. Not a good move, a great move.

It is exactly the type of maneuvering I was hoping for when Alderson was hired.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Centerfield wrote: If they are able to turn Colon into a good LF or SS

Now THAT would quite the feat!

[seawolf17]

He's already a better hitter than Rey Ordonez.

HEYOOOOOOOOOOO

[Guest d'Kong76]

Buh dum ching!!

[Frayed Knot]

OK, when I say that Bartolo was necessary it didn't mean specifically that HE was necessary, only that somebody was and he was one of a short list of somebodies - the Bartolo Bunch if you will despite the fact that this winter's group admittedly aren't as outwardly similar as the 'Benson Bunch' of years gone by (even considering Bronson Arroyo's hair of gold)

But this was the crew (chime in if I've missed any) who were available via FA-gency last winter, so chances are if the Mets didn't sign Bartolo they were going to have to sign someone. So far things have worked out fairly well with the one we did sign, starting with the fact that Colon has made all of his starts--something Niese & Gee haven't been able to do, Mejia was pulled from doing, Matsuzaka hasn't done that well, and Montero, Syndergaard, or deGrom weren't ready to do. And by looking at the other contracts, I don't quite get the "going cheap" comments; only Tanaka was substantially more expensive and I think we all knew the Wilpons weren't going there (and maybe that's a good thing based on this week's developments) and it's tough to complain about Bartolo representing the cheap route and being overpaid at the same time.


So here's the Bartolo Bunch with contract outlines and Y-t-D starts, ERA & WHiP (bold numbers show where the numbers are superior to Colon's 3.99 ERA, 1.18 WHIP)

PITCHER	AGE	YRs	$$/Yr	TEAM	GS	ERA	WHIP
UBALDO JIMINEZ	30	4	12.50	BALT	18	4.52	1.54
HIROKI KURODA	29	1	16.00	YANX	19	4.10	1.21
HIRO TANAKA	25	7	22.14	YANX	18	2.51	1.01
ERVIN SANTANA	31	1	14.00	ATL	17	4.01	1.26
TIM HUDSON	38	2	11.50	SFG	18	2.87	1.10
JOSH JOHNSON	29	1	8.00	TOR	0	�-	�-
DAN HAREN	33	1	10.00	LAD	19	4.23	1.27
RICKY NOLASCO	31	4	12.25	MINN	18	5.90	1.62
PHIL HUGHES	28	3	8.00	MINN	19	3.92	1.21
SCOTT KAZMIR	30	2	11.00	OAK	19	2.38	0.98
SCOTT FELDMAN	31	3	10.00	HOU	16	4.33	1.37
MIKE PELFREY	30	2	5.50	MINN	5	7.99	1.99
MATT GARZA	30	4	12.50	MILW	19	3.69	1.18
BRONSON ARROYO	37	2	11.75	ARZ	14	4.08	1.29
AJ BURNETT	37	2	11.25	PHIL	20	3.83	1.33

So the ones clearly better so far are --
Tanaka - although the elbow injury throws all that into question;
Hudson - although not much younger and coming off a broken ankle was at least as big a risk;
Kazmir - virtually the same deal by the team that let Colon go, he's certainly younger and fitter although arguably less durable and one of the rumored reasons Oakland was so keen on the Samardzija deal was due to questions about Kazmir's durability;

or about the same --
Hughes - so far anyway, and yet still the counter will be made about how he wouldn't have been able to do this in New York
Garza - for twice the length .. plus, do you want to look at that facial hair for the next four years?!?
Burnett - ummm. whatever

Meanwhile Josh Johnson never got out of ST and will miss the entire season, Pelfrey's been a disaster, Arroyo just went down to TJ surgery, Jimenez has been markedly worse, Santana would have cost a draft pick on top of the money, and none of those signings look as bad right now as Ricky Nolasco's.

[metirish]

http://metsblog.com/metsblog/mets-looking-for-ss-and-lf-help-via-trade/

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

http://metsblog.com/metsblog/mets-looking-for-ss-and-lf-help-via-trade/

Yes that's the dumb article I referred to above combining various press reports and opinion columns out of context, making unlikely scenarios look logical.

I goptta say I tip my hat to the "effort" they make over there but the lack of a perspective and the tendency of aggregated content to give the same weight to any topic no matter how dumb makes Metsblog one of the worst places to go if you want to understand what's happening if one of the best to know what's out there.

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: http://metsblog.com/metsblog/mets-looking-for-ss-and-lf-help-via-trade/

All MetsBlog is doing there (Hell, all they EVER do really) is merely repeating and linking the original Adam Rubin line which I'm sure is the one that got this thread started in the first place:
- namely that as we approach the July 31st deadline the Mets "will listen on trade proposals involving Bartolo Colon" (no surprise there) ...
- and that they "MAY ultimately end up dealing him" (or maybe not) ...
- and that if they do deal him they'd be looking for close-to-ready type players (Sandy has said as much publicly)
- and that their preference would be either a SS upgrade or a bat for LF (logical assumptions).

[Ceetar]

Plenty of other sites do it too, and it's even worse without the ESPN in the headline because it's so easy to let it scroll by not realizing you've just seen two instances of the same story rather than multiple reports about a story.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: Plenty of other sites do it too, and it's even worse without the ESPN in the headline because it's so easy to let it scroll by not realizing you've just seen two instances of the same story rather than multiple reports about a story.

A long ago site that some of us here used to belonged to long ago had its share of, shall we say, over-anxious teenage types who just scarfed down every rumor as if chiseled in stone fact. So when a trade possibility was floated, by say, the Daily News, many of them expected that trade to be completed by the end of the day and acted as if they had been lied to if it didn't come off. It then got even worse if ESPN's website picked up on that "report" as most then acted as if this was Woodward and Bernstein's vaunted "second source" without ever noticing that this was nothing more than ESPN saying that the Daily News said ...


And for what it's worth, Metsblog is citing various reports saying that the Yankees, A�s, Blue Jays, Angels, Orioles, Brewers, Indians, Pirates and Mariners as those possibly on the Colon trail.
So if y'all want to contemplate what any of those teams have in trade return, go nuts.

[MFS62]

I'm not going to speculate or contemplate. But if they do trade ol' Jelly Belly, I'll kinda' miss him. He looks like a slow pitch softball player out there.

Later

[Ceetar]

The problem here is that it's not a problem to most. There are legitimately fans out there that will have more fun this season discussing single A prospects and debating these sorts of trade rumors. It's not an accident that these sports shows/ESPN so often focus on polarizing debates of menial topics, though which is the chicken and which is the egg I don't know..

And to each his own certainly, but all these adherents to minor leaguers and process seem to be missing the point, which is the Mets themselves, on the field. Or spend endless hours analyzing each rumor and trade prospect. Seemingly spending more time thinking about and discussing what Colon can get for us in trade than actually watching him get us wins. I dunno, watching each guy like he's a commodity in the stock exchange just seems a little disconnected from the emotions and human aspects of the game that make it so great. I want to root for Colon to beat the Braves because they're the dreaded enemy on the field and need to be vanquished, not because a win pushes up his trade value.

Seems a bit like spending hours crafting a great beer recipe, organizing the ingredients, adding them to the wort..and then having little interest in actually drinking the beer.

Of course, a lot of that is people tricking themselves so they don't get hurt by investing emotions in a team that's got a higher percentage chance to fail than most. You don't hear quite as much about prospects and random trade projections on teams that are really in the thick of things.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: I want to root for Colon to beat the Braves because they're the dreaded enemy on the field and need to be vanquished, not because a win pushes up his trade value.

I certainly agree.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: I want to root for Colon to beat the Braves because they're the dreaded enemy on the field and need to be vanquished, not because a win pushes up his trade value. I certainly agree.

Fuck all y'all and that noise. I live for Sportscenter-highlight-makin' trade value.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: I want to root for Colon to beat the Braves because they're the dreaded enemy on the field and need to be vanquished, not because a win pushes up his trade value. I certainly agree. Fuck all y'all and that noise. I live for Sportscenter-highlight-makin' trade value.

When I was looking for the HRD the other night I had to consult the guide to figure out which station ESPN was.

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: http://metsblog.com/metsblog/mets-looking-for-ss-and-lf-help-via-trade/ All MetsBlog is doing there (Hell, all they EVER do really) is merely repeating and linking the original Adam Rubin line which I'm sure is the one that got this thread started in the first place: - namely that as we approach the July 31st deadline the Mets "will listen on trade proposals involving Bartolo Colon" (no surprise there) ... - and that they "MAY ultimately end up dealing him" (or maybe not) ... - and that if they do deal him they'd be looking for close-to-ready type players (Sandy has said as much publicly) - and that their preference would be either a SS upgrade or a bat for LF (logical assumptions).

Wait, so you are looking for a Mets-related blog that does not re-link others' material, and offers, instead, original, entertaining, sometimes heartfelt material about our beloved team? Good luck with that.

And if you do happen to find such a site, also find me a site that lists all the numbers ever worn by any Met, or better yet, a site that has every Met statistic ever, including the box score of every game in Met history.

[seawolf17]

Centerfield wrote: http://metsblog.com/metsblog/mets-looking-for-ss-and-lf-help-via-trade/ All MetsBlog is doing there (Hell, all they EVER do really) is merely repeating and linking the original Adam Rubin line which I'm sure is the one that got this thread started in the first place: - namely that as we approach the July 31st deadline the Mets "will listen on trade proposals involving Bartolo Colon" (no surprise there) ... - and that they "MAY ultimately end up dealing him" (or maybe not) ... - and that if they do deal him they'd be looking for close-to-ready type players (Sandy has said as much publicly) - and that their preference would be either a SS upgrade or a bat for LF (logical assumptions). Wait, so you are looking for a Mets-related blog that does not re-link others' material, and offers, instead, original, entertaining, sometimes heartfelt material about our beloved team? Good luck with that. And if you do happen to find such a site, also find me a site that lists all the numbers ever worn by any Met, or better yet, a site that has every Met statistic ever, including the box score of every game in Met history.

And if you DO find those sites, well, invite those guys to join the Pool, because anywhere those guys are posting is probably a pretty sweet place to be.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: Wait, so you are looking for a Mets-related blog that does not re-link others' material, and offers, instead, original, entertaining, sometimes heartfelt material about our beloved team?

No, I'm merely warning peeps not to treat this Bartolo "news" as if anything has really changed.
I certainly don't resent MetsBlog for what they do. I only go there occasionally myself but (as far as I know anyway) they're not pretending to be real journalism or anything other then just a clearinghouse for other already-published stuff, all of which is fine and has its place. It's just that when they repackage something and stick it under a puffed-up headline devoid of any context they wind up skewing the original intent rather than illuminating it.

[nymr83]

There is an article on espn.com speculating about where different guys could get traded one of which is Colon. One of the destinations is the Bronx and the nauseating reasoning is that they owe it to Jeter to try!

edit- the puke-inducing line:

Colon is a good short-term fix for the Yankees, and a bandage they should test out, if only for the sake of Jeter.

[Edgy MD]

This is going to get interesting. You've got to think a gaggle of teams were watching this game closely to determine whether Colon actually came up sick in the San Diego start or was just bad and losing it. Alderson is going to have a mini-auction in his office the next couple of days. He clearly doesn't want to weaken the team down the stretch, but Colon's contract's value is probably never going to be higher than it is this morning. One imagines Sandy'll be torn two ways and maybe more.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Colon has had just enough poor outings -- just a few, but those where he hasn't given the team a real great chance to win -- for me to be able to convince myself I'll be relieved if and when they move him.

Nice work, Bart. Now, beat it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He's an old guy; stuff like the flu/nagging body weirdness is going to nag a little more loudly than it might for Gee, I suspect.

This is one of those rare trade-bait situations where the potential return intrigues, but I'd honestly be pretty okay either way.

[Vic Sage]

Move him... MOVE HIM NOW!
Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[TransMonk]

Yeah, the closer we get to the deadline, the more urgently I want him to go.

If he's not moved, I may be as much concerned as I would be frustrated. It could mean that there are undisclosed doubts about Harvey's recovery or Syndergaard/Montero's progress.

If everyone is healthy, I don't see the reason for a 42 year old, $11M redundancy in 2015.