Bye-bye Bartolo?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Several reports that the Mets are taking calls on Colon.

He's 41 and will be paid $9 million this season, and $11 million for next season.

Questions:

1) What would you want in return?

2) Would this be a sign of throwing in the towel?

3) Or, is this a sign that our young hurlers are ready to step up?

4) Would you then have a rotation of Niese, Wheeler, Gee, de Grom, Matsuzaka? Do you give Snydergaard or Montero a shot instead? Does Hafner get a shot at reclaiming his roster spot?

5) If you decide not to deal, do you see a place for Colon on team next season?

6) Is there the potential for a better deal in the off-season?

[Edgy MD]

It certainly wouldn't be throwing in the towel. His job was always to hold down a slot in the rotation until it fills with younger arms. It's filling.

[seawolf17]

I'd trade him in a second if we can get a usable part or two for him.

[Edgy MD]

I imagine we can get something more than a usable part. A solid and effective part, I would conject.

[Ceetar]

Questions:

1) Good stuff. Quality LFer? low-level (non-40 man ready) high-ceiling prospects?

2) no.

3) more likely.

4) Hefner won't be ready this season. Niese, Gee, deGrom, Montero, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Matsuzaka, even Mejia. take your pick.

5) yes. always room for pitchers. pitching depth is key. Of those potential rotation guys, I'd probably take the over on at least one of them needing surgery between now and next year.

6) Potential yes, but you never know.

[Edgy MD]

That's the first I've heard that Hefner won't appear in 2014.

No way is Mejia being pulled from the pen.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: That's the first I've heard that Hefner won't appear in 2014. No way is Mejia being pulled from the pen.

I don't have the exact dates, but Harvey had the surgery mid-October and Hefner early September. While no one cares as much about Hefner's arm, there's little extra incentive for him to rush back either, and the same 14-16 month optimal recovery period puts him into the offseason as well.

I doubt Mejia is pulled from the pen either, but he could be, and probably should be, given the respective value of starters to relievers.

[Frayed Knot]

- aside from the caveat that you can't trade a player you sign to a FA contract for the first half-season (without his permission anyway), I think the Mets have been willing to listen to offers for Colon since about five minutes after signing him. IOW, I doubt there's any new news here, only that it's the time of year for this sort of speculation.

1) I think, and Sandy has more or less specifically said, that the mode of the Mets right now is not to deal vets for down-the-road types of prospects but rather more ready to plug in pieces, or at least something closer to that end than the two+ years away Wheeler or Syndergaard were at the times of their trades. IOW, adjust your trade wants toward that way of thinking if you're trying to predict what comes back.

2) Not if #1 is achieved

3) deGrom's emergence certainly helps you cover the hole that trading Colon would blow in the rotation, but I don't think it's a direct link

4) Matuszaka for now, Sydergaard and/or Montero and/or Hefner if/when they show they're ready.

5) It's not like there are only two extremes here: trade him now or keep him through 2015. If not traded this month he'll have a spot on the roster as long as he proves worthy of one or until a better offer shows up

6) Yes ... or no. One or the other.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Hef's already making rehab appearances, not that I necessarily believe he has the stuff to crack our starting 5 even before he was hurt. That said he could easily part of a post-Colon rotation solution, along with some of the younguns mentioned. I think Niee's health might wind up dictating how many of these guys they move ultimately.

Metsblog with typically confused perspective speculating that the Cubs might want a 41 year old pitcher so badly they'd give up Starlin Castro, and that Castro would be "perfect" for the Mets.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: I doubt Mejia is pulled from the pen either, but he could be, and probably should be, given the respective value of starters to relievers.

That implies that there are five capable pitchers. There are more. That's the point.

I don't doubt that Mejia will be pulled. I believe that we will see Jeff Francouer start a game for the SHaMs before we see Mejia do so. Such is the nature of my deep and abiding faith.

[Gwreck]

I was not a fan of the Colon deal when it happened and any chance we have to avoid paying him $11 million next year seems like a good idea to me. I bet there are a lot of better uses for that money in the offseason.

I guess it could be seen as "giving up" but even after a great homestand we have a 16% chance of making the playoffs.

I doubt Hefner pitches any meaningful innings in the majors this year. And yes, I am fine with promoting Syndergaard or Montero.

[ashie62]

I'd keep Colon but we have the depth to trade him if something like an MLB level power bat came about...

Hefner pitched one inning of a simulated game the other day.. think 2015..

[ashie62]

Here is the rumor link

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/439492/mets-have-made-sp-bartolo-colon-available

[TransMonk]

1) A quality major-leaguer (preferably SS or LF) who is younger and cheaper.

2) IMO, signing BC was throwing in the towel.

3) To some extent, the young hurlers have already stepped up. There are enough arms for the innings that the Mets have left this season (and next) without BC.

4) I'm not sure Snydergaard or Montero are ready yet, but everyone should get a shot when they are.

5) To me, BC on the 2015 roster would be a bad sign unless he is just an innings eater behind Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, et al...and $11M is a lot for an innings eater.

6) Doubtful. Unless he can pitch like he did in June for the remainder of the season, I have to think is value is higher now.

[Edgy MD]

Why was signing Colon throwing in the towel?

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: I doubt Mejia is pulled from the pen either, but he could be, and probably should be, given the respective value of starters to relievers. That implies that there are five capable pitchers. There are more. That's the point. I don't doubt that Mejia will be pulled. I believe that we will see Jeff Francouer start a game for the SHaMs before we see Mejia do so. Such is the nature of my deep and abiding faith.

Yes, and Mejia was one of those capable pitchers for the Mets this season. People get hurt. shut down. shuffled around. I already saw a post (Times i think) about Mejia and Parnell competing for the closers job next year. Great problem to have if it comes to that. But for now, the Mets are still starting the mostly effective but not part of the future Matsuzaka. Niese has been battling injury. Someone could get traded. Mejia should be at least on the depth chart for starters. Particularly above non-40 man guys like Lannan who might show up again.

[Edgy MD]

But for now, the Mets are still starting the mostly effective but not part of the future Matsuzaka.

The idea is to win, right?

Mejia should be at least on the depth chart for starters. Particularly above non-40 man guys like Lannan who might show up again.

Mejia starts in 2014: 7
Lannan starts in 2014: 0

The team has solved problems and here we are fabricating problems they don't have.

There is a surfeit of quality young pitchers. More than five. Some will necessarily be needed to staff the pen. That's a reality.

[TransMonk]

Edgy MD wrote: Why was signing Colon throwing in the towel?

Sorry...not exactly what I meant.

I know you and I have differing views on this, but I realistically threw in the towel when it was clear Harvey was going to miss 2014. Management tried to sell Colon as capable for filling in for Harvey...but Colon (as good as he was in 2013) is not Harvey. For me, the Colon signing was Mets management picking up the towel I had thrown and saying "Wait, wait...but, we signed Colon...he's good! Buy some tickets!".

If management really had intentions on winning a division in 2014, I would have thought they would have been more creative on offense and not spent $20M on two seasons of a post-40 year old pitcher.

[ashie62]

Mejia is the closer.....

I like Colon...he's cute....

We are going to challenge Washington for first.. play to win... relax!

[Frayed Knot]

And yet Colon has been quite necessary for 2014 and quite capable.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: And yet Colon has been quite necessary for 2014 and quite capable.

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to give him the boot. I just was wondering if he was at potential peak value and if the benefits of trading outweighed the benefits of keeping.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Colon and Dice K are that much more expendable with the sudden emergence of deGrom.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Colon and Dice K are that much more expendable with the sudden emergence of deGrom.

I'd look to trade Colon as soon as I can. He's old and very overweight. And even though he's effective, relying on a pitcher like Colon is like driving on a bald tire: you might get to where you're going but the tire can just the same, blow out at any second.

[Frayed Knot]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: And yet Colon has been quite necessary for 2014 and quite capable. Absolutely. I wasn't trying to give him the boot. I just was wondering if he was at potential peak value and if the benefits of trading outweighed the benefits of keeping.

I was more addressing some of the recent posts that Colon's original signing was a bad or a give-up move.
Look, whether the raw numbers offend us or not, $10 million/year is more or less the going rate for middle of the rotation starters on the open market - and Colon has been every bit the solid starter to date: made all his starts, avg of nearly 7 innings/start, sub-4.00 ERA, 1.18 WHiP.

IOW, I'm not buying that this was some kind of white towel signing nor do I think it was sold as a Harvey replacement. Of course it was partly done because Harvey was going to be out, but that doesn't mean he was there to duplicate Harvey. Hell, if Harvey were never injured his 2014 season was unlikely to duplicate what he did in 2013.

That doesn't mean you don't listen to or even troll for offers as obviously he has a limited shelf life. But I think it's clear that it wouldn't be some sort of addition by subtraction move that you want to make as soon as possible.

[TransMonk]

I'm not sure he is necessary...especially with less than 70 games left in 2014.

He may be capable, but look at the other Mets starters' ERAs. Colon's being the worst among them gives me hope for the future.

I hope the Mets can get as much for him as they can. But I'm not convinced he was a value signing.

[Edgy MD]

Fangraphs says he's already given 'em $6 million in value.

[Zvon]

TransMonk wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Why was signing Colon throwing in the towel? Sorry...not exactly what I meant. I know you and I have differing views on this, but I realistically threw in the towel when it was clear Harvey was going to miss 2014. Management tried to sell Colon as capable for filling in for Harvey...but Colon (as good as he was in 2013) is not Harvey. For me, the Colon signing was Mets management picking up the towel I had thrown and saying "Wait, wait...but, we signed Colon...he's good! Buy some tickets!". If management really had intentions on winning a division in 2014, I would have thought they would have been more creative on offense and not spent $20M on two seasons of a post-40 year old pitcher.

I totally agree with this assessment in that I felt exactly the same way. To me Colon was a stop-gap and not a go-for-it type of move. I fully expect him to be gone before next season. When? I don't care. I only hope we get something good that we need out of it.

Granted, he has given us some great innings, big wins, etc.
But the blown tire theory Batmags brought up is a good analogy as to how I feel about him over the full 2 yrs.

[Edgy MD]

What would have represented a go-for-it move? Tanaka?

[ashie62]

Wtf is wrong with Bartolo Colon???

He is still very effective, durable and cheap, yes, cheap.

[TransMonk]

There's nothing wrong with Colon...but nothing great either.

I don't think he is the future...so I'd get something for him now if they can.