Reyes vs. Braun & Other Average Troublemakers

[Edgy MD]

Willets Point wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Does Terry feel terrible about every other regular he's given the day off to during September so he can look at the callups? Why has this non-issue become an issue? Seriously, people just need something to be angry about.

This isn't true. How about giving me some credit?

[Willets Point]

Edgy DC wrote: Willets Point wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Does Terry feel terrible about every other regular he's given the day off to during September so he can look at the callups? Why has this non-issue become an issue? Seriously, people just need something to be angry about. This isn't true. How about giving me some credit?

How about you chill out?

[Frayed Knot]

Braun is 0-fer-2

He was also the (pre-scheduled) guest on ESPN's PTI* program today. He refused to take the bash-Reyes bait offered him and also claimed he'd be in there tonight for every AB no matter the score or his progress (easy to say, tempting to back out on if circumstances dictate).
Came across as a decent guy even if dressed in his usual douche-wear (leather jacket over t-shirt).









* PTI led with the Reyes story which, considering that they rarely lead with anything but football or LeBron, represents a big departure for them.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Braun starts 0-2, basically guaranteeing Reyes will win the title. Karma? Not so much.

[Guest themetfairy]

Braun shouldn't be playing on Rosh Hashanah anyway.

[Frayed Knot]

If you can post, he can play.

[Guest themetfairy]

That only counts when you guys pay me to post.

[Edgy MD]

Willets Point wrote: Willets Point wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Does Terry feel terrible about every other regular he's given the day off to during September so he can look at the callups? Why has this non-issue become an issue? Seriously, people just need something to be angry about. This isn't true. How about giving me some credit? How about you chill out?

So, that's a no?

Did I post something terribly off-balance?

[TransMonk]

Braun 0 for 3. Point moot. Even if Jose played the whole game and never got another hit, he'd still be champion.

I'd rather be going to the playoffs.

[G-Fafif]

NATIONAL LEAGUE BATTING RACE
FINAL - 2011
REYES, NYM .337
Braun, MIL .332

Jose Reyes of the New York Mets is the National League Batting Champion for 2011 -- for all of 2011.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: i'd like to see the list of hitters who, when locked in such a tight race, and leading, did take the field on the final day.

Nevermind ones playing meaningless games with a not 100% hamstring and having already hit .486 or so over the last seven days to create that lead?

[metirish]

Congrats Jose.....hope you have a few more of these in a Mets uni.

[Guest themetfairy]

Here's yesterday's hit -

[Guest holychicken]

Willets Point wrote: Seriously, people just need something to be angry about.

This is my position. It seems to me that Mets fans don't want to be happy that something good happened to them. They want want to be miserable.

Seriously, does a 75 win season or a 76 win season really make a difference? Is anyone (who didn't have money riding on it) really going to look back on this season and say "thank GOD we had 76 wins instead of 75!"?

Jose Reyes played to win the only thing that had remotely any type of meaning for the Mets this season. He did what gave him the best shot of winning the battle title, giving Mets fans and the organization something they have never had before. I am glad he did the smart thing and put winning above some "honor" and a tradition that doesn't exist.

[Edgy MD]

holychicken wrote: Seriously, does a 75 win season or a 76 win season really make a difference? Is anyone (who didn't have money riding on it) really going to look back on this season and say "thank GOD we had 76 wins instead of 75!"?

Has anybody made this argument?

holychicken wrote: Jose Reyes played to win the only thing that had remotely any type of meaning for the Mets this season. He did what gave him the best shot of winning the battle title, giving Mets fans and the organization something they have never had before. I am glad he did the smart thing and put winning above some "honor" and a tradition that doesn't exist.

I disagree with you on what has meaning. I also disagree that putting winning a batting average title above honor is good. You put "honor" in quotes, so we apparently disagree on what is honorable. I'd be happy to discuss that as well.

[MFS62]

Nobody is making much of when Wade Boggs sat out the last 4 days of a season and won the batting title.
Later

[Edgy MD]

Nobody is talking about Albert Belle's corked bats, either. It's not exactly a current issue.

Neither is anybody suggesting that Jose Reyes is the first battling average titlist to sit out.

[HahnSolo]

Well, you knew this was coming.

Who had Rob Parker in the "Reyes isn't Jeter" sweepstakes?

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7032587/new-york-mets-shortstop-jose-reyes-cheated-team-fans-exiting-season-finale-early

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: Nobody is making much of when Wade Boggs sat out the last 4 days of a season and won the batting title.

They did at the time. I remember calling him "chicken" (in reference to his eating habits) was a big thing among Yankee fans.
On the other hand he also had a sore hamstring and a post-season to rest up for.

[TransMonk]

What a completely unnecessary article. How many batting titles does Jeter have again?

[Edgy MD]

It was Mattingly chasing him in the batting average race. OF COURSE, people made a big deal.

[metsmarathon]

if i had the time and the inclination, i'd really like to play with rotosheet or bbref and take a look at the yearly batting average winners, and how they played their final game relative to their respective playoff situations and the batting title race.

i know there are plenty of players who played and plenty who sat, and there might be a few who exited early. i'd just like to quantify it a bit. researching contemporary relative moral outrage would then be a fun follow-up.

[stevejrogers]

Pics I took of the aftermath of the hit


006 by sjrmets, on Flickr


012 by sjrmets, on Flickr

[Guest holychicken]

Edgy DC wrote: holychicken wrote: Seriously, does a 75 win season or a 76 win season really make a difference? Is anyone (who didn't have money riding on it) really going to look back on this season and say "thank GOD we had 76 wins instead of 75!"? Has anybody made this argument?

Not here, but I have read elsewhere and heard plenty of people who have said that taking himself out of a game that had yet to be decided was showing a lack of a desire to win. When, honestly, I think it shows the opposite.

holychicken wrote: Jose Reyes played to win the only thing that had remotely any type of meaning for the Mets this season. He did what gave him the best shot of winning the battle title, giving Mets fans and the organization something they have never had before. I am glad he did the smart thing and put winning above some "honor" and a tradition that doesn't exist. I disagree with you on what has meaning.

Could you list what meaningful things were left for the Mets to accomplish this year that Reyes could have realistically helped achieve at the time he was pulled? Of course, what does and does not have meaning is subjective. But I rarely hear anyone talk about a 75 or 76 win team, but I do hear people talk about batting titles. I have a hard time, using how people look back on the sport as what is "objective", that there was anything more meaningful than the batting title.

I also disagree that putting winning a batting average title above honor is good. You put "honor" in quotes, so we apparently disagree on what is honorable. I'd be happy to discuss that as well.

It's a game. As long as he is playing within the rules set forth by the league, the idea that it can be dishonorable to use those rules to your maximize your chances of winning befuddles me. You play to win.

This article, while it does refer to video games, probably does a better job of explaining my position than I.

[Edgy MD]

Could you list what meaningful things were left for the Mets to accomplish this year that Reyes could have realistically helped achieve at the time he was pulled?

Playing something close to a full game for a group of 30,000 fans who showed up for a weekday game to delight in him, celebrate him, love him, photograph him, and express their appreciation for him one more time before he possibly disappears.

It's a game. As long as he is playing within the rules set forth by the league, the idea that it can be dishonorable to use those rules to your maximize your chances of winning befuddles me. You play to win.

First you say winning doesn't matter --- 76 versus 77 wins is irrelevant --- and then you say you play to win.

If you don't see any higher code of honor you'd like the players on your team to display than staying within the baseball rulebook to serve their own wants, then I'm not going to try and evangelize you. I see it different.

[Benjamin Grimm]

[Guest attgig]

I hated him leaving. And while it shouldn't, i think what makes me hate it more than anything else is that it was a bunt single. I know it's a part of the game and a hit is a hit, but I think I would've been fine if he hit a home run and left, or even a solid single and left. But when it's a bunt single.... I don't know. just makes it feel worse. Kinda like breaking up a no hitter with a bunt...

all psychological i guess.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote:

I want to sleep with that card.

[Centerfield]

It was a shitty thing to do but not a big deal in my book.

It should not overshadow the fact that he won.

[Chad ochoseis]

It's a team game - individual records are interesting only when they're earned in the course of playing the game in a way that helps the team win.

Reyes pulling out after the bunt single was cheap because there was no strategic reason to quit - if his hamstring was acting up, he could have sat out the game. Or he could have announced before the game started that he was going to come to bat once and call it a season, whether he got a hit or not. But it sure looks like Reyes' main goal was to inflate his average.

Yeah, it's been done plenty of times before. And, sure, the Mets in general are easy targets and get far more abuse than they deserve, and way too much has been made out of this by the media. It still sucked.