McGwire, Roid Freak

[Willets Point]

It's pointless to dredge up yet another guilty party from back then instead of focusing on what's going on right now. We already know that lots of players - maybe all the players - used roids back then and that encouraged stricter rules in the MLB in 2003. It's counterproductive to keep going back to before 2003. It's past and gone. We can only fix what's happening today.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the guilty party came forward on his own terms.

But his exposure and uhappiness can hopefully serve as a warning against latter-day would-be cheaters. And also, perhaps, help uncover those in the game then, and still in the game now, who facilitated his bamboozling. Truth begets truth. Justice begets justice.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'll-- gasp-- agree with Ashie on this... at least in stipulating that his admission seems sincere.

Except for one thing, really-- the apology. Though I'll allow that he's definitely sorry for the way things have turned out for him, I don't buy for a second that he's sorry for what he did, or that he wouldn't do it again-- if maybe in a different way-- given the exact same set of circumstances today.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Well, the guilty party came forward on his own terms..[/quote:2ghhuwtx]

Yes .... those terms being: "If I get into the HOF, I won't admit anything. But if I get just 23% of the vote, I guess I'll have to admit that I took some PEDS that made it harder instead of easier for me to hit home runs."

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'll-- gasp-- agree with Ashie on this... at least in stipulating that his admission seems sincere.

Except for one thing, really-- the apology. Though I'll allow that he's definitely sorry for the way things have turned out for him, I don't buy for a second that he's sorry for what he did, or that he wouldn't do it again-- if maybe in a different way-- given the exact same set of circumstances today.[/quote:j62nbzvn]
Well, Ashie is speaking of his "statement" --- the only part of which that can be controversial is the apology. I mean, of course the admission is sincere. Why would he lie in saying he used?

[metsmarathon]

my only problem with the admision is that, at a minimum, he's lying to himself that the steroids didnt help him hit any more home runs than he woulc have, cleanly. i mean, by his own admission, he was able to stay in the game because the steroids helped him heal. by staying in teh game, and not retiring early or deteriorating as rapidly as he would have without steroids, he was able to hit more home runs.

duh.

now, he may not believe that the steroids enabled him to hit the ball better, harder, or farther, but it allowed him to maintain a higher level of performance on the field for a longer duration in terms of both games per season, and seasons per career, than he would have been able to on his own. and he's kidding himself if he doesn't see that.

i believe that he doesn't see that, by the way. or at least, that he's actively deluded himself over the past 20 years so that he can no longer see it.

well, i imagine there's a high probability that he's been coached to say that, or encouraged to say that, so that he can still lay claim to his accomplishments in his career. that as soon as he acknowledges that steroids let him hit even one more home run, the thread starts to unravel to the point where every one of his home runs since 1989 may be culled from his record. but he could be delusional, too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

�I�m not surprised Mark said it,� says Steve Trachsel, author of the pitch that became Mark McGwire's 62nd homer of 1998. �I mean, we all suspected it. We all knew it. Now you have to say everything he ever did was tainted. All of it.�

According to Bob Klapisch, Trachs also reminded folks, with chagrin, that McGwire missed first base on his trot and had to be stopped by Dave McKay.

[Centerfield]

What the fuck Trachs. Stop being such a loser.

[TransMonk]

John Kruk on Sportcenter last night stated he never used steroids. If that weren't laughable enough, he went on to imply that if everyone was clean when he played he would have been one of the best players of his day.

[Centerfield]

That's the fucked up thing. No one is ever going to investigate John Kruk, even though he might have been the biggest roid-head of them all, because no one cares if he used.

Everyone knows I was opposed to people excluding McGwire based on speculation alone, but if the voters hadn't done so, he would be in and we would never have this admission. And something that promotes players to stay silent is clearly not a good thing.

Of course, the last thing I would want to see is a "Come clean and we'll vote you in" policy. Whether intentional or otherwise. That's idiotic.

Maybe you just let them all in and chalk it up as a circumstance of the times. I don't know. I wish there was a good answer.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

David Brown of Yahoo's Big League Stew breaks down the McGwire break down in FJM-ish fashion. Cheeky sample below:

BC: Could you have hit 70 home runs � a home-run ratio greater than anything Babe Ruth did in his time � without using steroids? MM: Absolutely. I was given this gift by the Man Upstairs. Again with this "Man Upstairs." Costas, he's telling you that his dealer is upstairs! Find out where he is! Make him show his face! MM: My track record as far as hitting home runs. ... My first at bat in Little League was a home run; they still talk about the home runs in high school; they still talk about the home runs in [American] Legion; they still talk about the home runs I hit in college. I led the nation in home runs. They still talk about the home runs I hit in the minor leagues. "I led the nation in home runs." Translation: Why do you hate America, Bob Costas? BC: Would you have [accomplished all McGwire did] if you had never touched anything but a protein shake? MM: I truly believe so. I believe I was given this gift. Look, this is all God's will. Hasn't Costas been told? God gave McGwire the ability. And he made the drugs available in the form of a burning bottle of Andro... Here I was in a situation where I had two scenarios: Possible prosecution or possible grand-jury testimonies... We agreed to not talk about the past. And it was not enjoyable to do that, Bob. Let me tell you right now, sitting up there and listening to the Hooten family behind me and the other families behind me that lost their loved ones, and every time I kept on saying, "I'm not talking about the past," I hear these moans. It was killing me. It was absolutely killing my heart. But I had to do what I had to do to protect myself, to protect my family and to protect my friends. Anybody who was in my shoes that had those scenarios set out in front of them would have done the same exact thing. One of McGwire's themes, for every action that he took, seems that "anyone else would have done the same thing." Hear that? You are a Congressional evader just like him! Shame on you all!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

And Walkoff Walk's Rob Iracane offers his report card of the interview and its fallout:

McGwire, B: Probably cried authentic tears, but never really broke down into a full "boo-hoo" cry that would have convinced a nation of amateur psychoanalysts that he was sincere... Also, Mac never pimped himself as a HOFer, even refusing to answer the question if he would vote for himself; instead, he came off like a family man who wanted nothing more than to work as a hitting coach under a convicted drunk driver. The American dream!

Perhaps most notably, he assails the idea of 1998's McGwire-Sosa War of Dong "saving baseball:"

Sure, it was a cute story back in 1998, but if you were one of the dopes who thought that famous home run chase "brought baseball back," go back in time and punch yourself in the face. The United States courts supported the players union and issued an injunction against the owners in March, 1995. That's what saved baseball. Good ol' fashioned litigation.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I remember in 1995 it was Cal Ripken who "saved baseball."

[Frayed Knot]

Several of the so-called "saved baseball" moments were more-or-less excuses for why the sport was doing so well concocted after the fact by those who declared the sport dead in the early '90s.
I must of heard that expression 20 times in the last 24 hours - mostly from people who ought to be talking about something else.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And I think some of it may have been wishful thinking.

[metirish]

I caught some on the interview.....painful is the word I would use to describe it.

[MFS62]

He said that he didn't start to use PED until he had been in the majors for a while. I'm not sure how much of what he says that we can believe. But if that is true, he got off to a start that IMO would have put him on track for a career similar to HOF-er Harmon Killebrew.
Too bad, he may have shot himself in the foot, as well as other places.

Later

[Centerfield]

Jose Canseco saved baseball.

[Vic Sage]

it's funny because it's true, kinda.

[ashie62]

it's funny because it's true, kinda.[/quote:dqbeaodk]

McGwire and Canseco should be on the restricted list with Rose & Jackson

[Frayed Knot]

Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?

[ashie62]

Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?[/quote:oq501pxr]

Funny, I was debating that..I decided to persecute just these two but upon further review I'm adding Andy Petitte in a very arbitrary way

[nymr83]

Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?[/quote:1b6mahmg]

Funny, I was debating that..I decided to persecute just these two but upon further review I'm adding Andy Petitte in a very arbitrary way[/quote:1b6mahmg]

Lets add Clemens and their buddy Jeter (guilt by association) and call it a day.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

[nymr83]

Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

[MFS62]

I think that picture was posted here many months ago. (I know I've seen it before)
It would have to have been nominated when originally posted (if there was a BOC awarded then), wouldn't it?.
But in the absence of any hard and fast BOC nomination rules, I'd say nominate away and let the chips fall where they may.
(Er, that may be the wrong expression to use on the day we find out about Beltran's new surgery.)

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

By months, you must mean 64 months. It probably first appeared on the internet the morning after the incident happened. It's everywhere.

[metirish]

Shit , I was done with that pic four years ago.

[Guest Edgy DC]

By the way, is the 1988-1989 offseason the earliest verified steroids usage on record now?