You're Entering A World of Pain (2009 Injuries)

[Vic Sage]

It never ends: Putz's rehab appearance for Brooklyn tonight has been postponed.[/quote:26onnuib]
The news leaked out?
I thought whatever happens in Brooklyn stays in Brooklyn.

Later[/quote:26onnuib]

well, I happened in Brooklyn, yet i managed an escape. so it is possible.

[HahnSolo]

Ollie is going back to NY to have his knee checked.

[bmfc1]

I'm guessing Misch. He was used as a starter during at Buffalo. Amazing/pathetic that Redding is a definite starter when he was on the verge of being released and that Figueroa is a definite starter even though he was released by the Mets at least twice. And Misch was released by the Giants this season.

[seawolf17]

What does Lance Broadway have to do to get a callup? I know he hasn't exactly been a world-beater in AAA, but he's only 26 -- you have to give him a shot at some point, right?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Why not give Broadway or Pettyjohn some starts? We know Redding's not going to be around next season, so at least give someone else a chance to show what they have.

Maybe they were premature in cutting Livan loose.

[Theoldmole]

Anyone predict at the beginning of the season how big this topic was going to be?

[seawolf17]

Geez, who will the starting 5 be for the rest of the year? If Oliver gets shut down, we're left with Pelfrey, Parnell, Redding, Figueroa, and...?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Geez, who will the starting 5 be for the rest of the year? If Oliver gets shut down, we're left with Pelfrey, Parnell, Redding, Figueroa, and...?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Johan to have season-ending surgery... to remove elbow bone chips. Back by spring training. (Phew.)

And oh yeah-- as per Jerry's comments yesterday, Johan's been unable to take his throw days for close to 8 weeks now! So he's been pitching for nearly two months with elbow pain for a team that has been pretty much playing out the string since the All-Star break! I continue to have the utmost faith in and respect for this club's management team!

UPDATED ROLL CALL

Currently on DL:
Beltran (Knee--Bone Bruise)
Cora (Hand--Torn Ligaments)
Delgado (Hip labral tear, strained oblique)
Maine (Shoulder-- inflammation?)
FMartinez (Knee-- meniscus tear)
RMartinez (Finger-- torn ligament)
Nieve (Leg-- quad tear)
Niese (Hamstring-- tear)
Putz (Elbow-- inflammation/cartilage issue?)
Reyes (Hamstring-- strain/tear)
Santana (Elbow-- bone chips)
Wright (Concussion)

Previous DL time:
Church (Neck-- strain)
Pagan (2 stints: Groin-- strain; hamstring-- strain)
Perez (Knee-- inflammation)
Redding (Shoulder-- weakness/ache)
Schneider (Back-- strained muscle)
Sheffield (Hamstring-- strain)
Wagner-- (Elbow-- recovery, TJ surgery)

Missed time, no DL:
Castillo (Ankle)
Castro (Back?)
Francoeur (Thumb-- torn ligament)
Pelfrey (Forearm-- tendinitis)

[smg58]

And oh yeah-- as per Jerry's comments yesterday, Johan's been unable to take his throw days for close to 8 weeks now! So he's been pitching for nearly two months with elbow pain for a team that has been pretty much playing out the string since the All-Star break! I continue to have the utmost faith in and respect for this club's management team![/quote:sn99q1wo]

Somebody at Fangraphs made essentially the same point. Unfortunately, it is a perfectly valid one.

Misch is back up. With Sept. 1 around the corner, it is probably now safe for him to unpack.

In other news, Putz' pitching session was cut short on Saturday due to "forearm discomfort." He has been shut down indefinitely. Sheesh, at least Wagner came back long enough to say goodbye.

[nymr83]

this season has been dead for 2-3 months and the Mets kept trotting out their $100 million investment despite KNOWING he was hurt?? fire everyone who was involved in or even complicit in this decision. fuck this stupid franchise

[metirish]

Imagine if this lot ran the country , it would be in a terrible mess.

[Centerfield]

this season has been dead for 2-3 months and the Mets kept trotting out their $100 million investment despite KNOWING he was hurt?? fire everyone who was involved in or even complicit in this decision. fuck this stupid franchise[/quote:3kefksp2]

What he said. Except more emphatically and with more cursing.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Do we have any reason to believe that pitching wth bone chips was making it worse?

Because I think I've read enough indefensible "fire everyone" declarations.

I mean, I know it seems intuitive, but felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas, you know?

[nymr83]

In other news, Putz' pitching session was cut short on Saturday due to "forearm discomfort." He has been shut down indefinitely

they're now saying out for the year

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Do we have any reason to believe that pitching wth bone chips was making it worse?

Because I think I've read enough indefensible "fire everyone" declarations.

I mean, I know it seems intuitive, but felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas, you know?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Sure, but any kind of usage could be making it worse. The reality is that pitchers pitch in pain and hurt all the time. We know nothing of the particulars as to when the nature of the pain became apparent, what the degree of the injury is and where the placement of the chips were. And they were right to sit on it because the rush to judgment has become delerious.

And the season has not been lost for two to three months.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Certainly not. Three months ago it was May and the Mets were surging towards first place.

I'd say it started feeling lost when the bad June turned into a bad July, with no signs of improvement.

So I'd say it's been lost for, at most, about six weeks. (It just SEEMS like two or three months.)

[dgwphotography]

It wasn't until about two weeks ago that I realized that there would be no miracle comeback, so I don't blame Santana at all for pitching as long as he did with this.

[Centerfield]

If Johan Santana is not healthy enough to be throwing between starts, he should not be pitching.

He has had too much pain to do so since the All-Star break, a time when we knew the season had been lost.

Therefore, I think anyone involved in this decision to run him out there should be fired. It's incompetence to an incomprehensible level.

[Guest Edgy DC]

If Johan Santana is not healthy enough to be throwing between starts, he should not be pitching.[/quote:jelhoyc6]

Do you have any idea how many pitchers at any given time are being held off from regular work between starts?

[Centerfield]

No, but I imagine it's quite a few.

And I realize not all of them are shut down, but if the pitcher is Johan Santana, and you've got him signed for a bizzillion dollars, and you are out of the pennant race, and the problem persists for six weeks, then it goes beyond the realm of defensible decisions.

For me anyway. I'm surprised to see so many that do not agree.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, it's easy to work backwards. The season is lost now, so one can make a logical argument that he never should have thrown an inning. But going forward is much harder to do, and a team has to constantly weigh risks against rewards, constantly trying to quantify the key factors --- "Is he feeling better? How much better? Is there risk that he's doing damage? How much risk? Has the likeihood of saving the season fallen since yesterday? How are our rehabbies doing?"

You go into a season with a one-in-30 shot. Who would logically put any multi-million bets on such a gamble? But they do and that's the business.

[seawolf17]

And in defense of letting him pitch -- as of the break, the Mets were only six and a half games away from the division and the WC. One hot streak, and this team was back in it. That was before Bernazard, before we realized that none of the injured guys were coming back -- there was still a chance there, and shutting him down then would have been suicide. We would have been going crazy here, ripping them up and down. At least he's shut down now, when it really doesn't matter any more.

[Centerfield]

As of August 4, the team was 10 games back of the division. They were 9 out of the Wild Card with 8 teams in front of them. They were, effectively, out of both races.

At that point, Johan Santana had been in sufficient pain that he was unable to do his throwing session after his last three starts.

However, they ran him out there four more times.

We're arguing over opinion here, so obviously your mileage may vary. But I cannot see how anyone would justify allowing Santana to make his start on August 4. Much less three more starts after that.

[smg58]

That was before Bernazard, before we realized that none of the injured guys were coming back -- there was still a chance there, and shutting him down then would have been suicide.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So, we're to hang them for what they might have known?

[stevejrogers]

Geez, who will the starting 5 be for the rest of the year? If Oliver gets shut down, we're left with Pelfrey, Parnell, Redding, Figueroa, and...?

[Guest themetfairy]

It wasn't until about two weeks ago that I realized that there would be no miracle comeback, so I don't blame Santana at all for pitching as long as he did with this.[/quote:3tsu9dje]

No miracle comeback?

[seawolf17]