mets get delgado (apparently)

[Guest heep]

I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year.

I think that irked them that they got turned down. Now, they have have the opportunity to take him from a division rival, as they do with Wagner.

Smart move. I agree.

Saves them the turmoil of trading Milledge. Ok.

Next to Ramirez, the best run producer we can acquire this off-season.. Very nice.

But me, (stubborn and young) would rather go with Jacobs. Like I said, f him and f zambrano.

[Guest heep]

"Fred probably has the final say, but they trust Omar and have given him full autonomy in building the organization and team"

This is not building, this is assembling.

Building (from within) would mean Jacobs and Petit.

[seawolf17]

Zvon wrote: ="heep"]Ok. Rationalize this with me. Perfect example: Wagner's offer. Who determines this? Jeff or Minaya? I say both. But who ultimately has the final say? Stedman

LOL

[duan]

What's Victor Zambrano done now?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here's my fearless prediction:

Mike Jacobs will never hit 30 home runs in a major league season.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Greg's Analysis

]It may not be what the Pilgrims had in mind, but Happy Thanksgiving.

[Elster88]

heep wrote: I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year. I think that irked them that they got turned down.

Of course, you really have no way to know if this is true one way or the other.

[Elster88]

Buck Martinez called Delgado intelligent and said he always plays hard. The anti-Manny if you will.

He said he was a terrible defensive first baseman.

He absolutely loves Petit, citing his K/BB numbers and the fact that Venezuela produces great pitchers.

I'm not sold on the latter, coming from Venezuela doesn't make you a great pitcher, but I think he said Petit was 115/13 last year. I've been on board with TITTS the whole time and not backing off, but that is impressive.

[Zvon]

heep wrote: I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year.

I was thinkin about this just this morning when reading the paper (about Wagner touring NY) and wondered if thats why there was no Mets/Delgado trade talk from the Mets. I was wondering if Omar was purposly looking elsewhere as a re-snub to Delgados snub. i was even gonna bring it up here.

Then I get online to see if we might get Wags for turkeyday, and we got Delgado.
Wondering ceased.

[Guest heep]

="Yancy Street Gang"]Here's my fearless prediction: Mike Jacobs will never hit 30 home runs in a major league season.

He's done it before in the minors.

[Elster88]

Your point?

On edit:

Year---HR
99---4
00---7
01---3
02---11
03---17
04---2

[Guest heep]

Please tell me I'm missing something here:

Who would trade for a player who rejected to play for us last year? Turned you down and accepted less money somewhere else. You think Delgado is a happy Met right now?

How do we know he won't demand a trade, via marty noble's article on mets.com?

[Elster88]

You are missing something. I think people have tried to clue you in but you won't accept any argument but your own.

If Delgado shits the bed and Mike Jacobs hits 30+ home runs each year for the next few years, I'll say you were right. But that's not happening.

[metsmarathon]

Elster88 wrote: Not all of us mid-20 year olds are against the deal.

i'm too old to dislike this trade. sigh.

[Guest heep]

My pont is you really have know way of knowing that. 30 homeruns, he hit over 30 last year alone between AA and ML.

[Centerfield]

I think his point is that unlike Benny, Jacobs' late season success has less of a chance to be a fluke since there is some history for it...whereas Benny's power surge seemingly came from nowhere.

Again, I distinguish guys like Jacobs from other "prospects" simply because he was able to have some success at the major league level, albeit for a short time. I'm sad to see him go because he had such a fluid swing, the ball jumped off his bat, and because he was such a likeable player. In other words, he looked like he was going to be a star.

But I still stand behind this deal because in the best case scenario where everything breaks right, Jacobs would be Carlos Delgado, and with an aging staff, I'll take the sure thing over the promising young guy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

heep wrote: Please tell me I'm missing something here: Who would trade for a player who rejected to play for us last year? Turned you down and accepted less money somewhere else. You think Delgado is a happy Met right now? How do we know he won't demand a trade, via marty noble's article on mets.com?

Let him demand a trade. It could cost him millions and millions of dollars. And we could get back a talented young pitcher and a first baseman who once hit 17 homers in the minor leagues.

Anyone, nobody exercises that option, because it's potentially too costly.

[nymr83]

this is a great trade.
Delgado is a top-10 hitter.
Jacobs is an unproven youngster with no real position and he was never even thought of the way milledge/wright were in the minors, he could easily be a fluke (though i didnt think he is.) If he had been a well-thought-of prospect maybe i'd feel differently, but what makes him any different from the first month of Shane Spencer and Benny Agbayani??
Petit is a pitching prospect and i am universally untrusting of them, and he's not regarded as highly as many others.
they are both probaby at the peak of their values right now (as are Heilman and Seo IMO, though i still want to keep them.)
Delgado is, imo, 90% likely to do well here. unless BOTH Jacobs and Petit "beat the odds" and turn into good players we have won this trade. if one of them turns out good but not the other then the trade might be a wash. overall the probability is strong that this trade looks good for the Mets when looked back on ina few years.

i'll make a few predictions based on this trade, feel free to save them as i'll stand by them:

Carlos Delgado will place in the top 5 of the MVP voting as a Met at least once in the next 2 years.
Yusmeiro Petit will, AT BEST, ultimately be another Kris Benson, a highly regarded prospect who turns into a league-average pitcher for most of his career (100 ERA+ most years), alternatively he will simply stink.
Jacobs will be a starter for the next few years hitting 20ish homers and batting .280, he will then become a bench player providing power off of the bench.

[Guest heep]

I understand. Delgado will not shit the bed, I know.

But I was anticipating a good year from Jacobs, he just looked like a good guy, too.

We needed the O, and we got it substantially at 1b.

I'll look forward to Milledge this August.

[Elster88]

I hear ya on liking Jacobs. I was looking forward to saying, for the next fifteen years, that I personally witnessed his first major league home run. I don't want to bash the guy. I just am loving the trade. I think the Mets in 2006 got much better with this move.

[metsmarathon]

="heep"]My pont is you really have know way of knowing that. 30 homeruns, he hit over 30 last year alone between AA and ML.

ithink the point is that while there is a chance, and i'll consider it fairly slight, that mike jacobs will hit 30 homers next year, there is a significantly greater likelihood that delgado will hit 30 homers next year.

delgado is a tremendous offensive player. i expect that to continue, with some decline, granted. last season he was one of the ten best hitters in the league, and is not old enough that you would fear him falling off the proverbial cliff.

jacobs, on the other hand, had a superb 100 at bats last season. he slugged friggin' .710! but do you really expect him to repeat that ths coming season? do you really expect him to continue to make such significant strides forward, or do you concede that his next season will likely see far more of a regression to the mean, given a full season's worth of at bats? you say you expect him to hit 30 homers next year. how many players have managed that feat in their first full season in the majors? is jacobs to be that good? i doubt it.

delgado is the sure thing here. jacobs has a bit of potential, but as has been said elsewhere, that potential is unlikely to bring him to match what you can get of delgado now, and there's no waiting involved.

and petit... well, truly rare is the pitcher who contributes meaningfully to a pennant chaser in his first go around, and there's a whole lot of scoutly disagreement as to his true ceiling. now, its hard to argue his performance, and the statistically minded side of me says to look to that as an indication of future performance, but there's just way too much subjective dissent for me to be a true believer. maybe his "unlikely" performance will bring him meaningfull success, but i'm more skeptical. while we had him, i remained hopeful, but that's all i had. hope.

i typically bend against the TITTS side of these things, but in this case, i can hardly find fault. i really liked the player we gave up in jacobs, but in getting back delgado, i find a more than adequate salve.

[nymr83]

SS Reyes (who still needs to get on base more)
CF Beltran (in the spot where he belongs)
1B Delgado (who needs to drive Pierre in when you've got Reyes!)
3B Wright (L-R-L 3-5, or bat Wright 3rd if you don't care about that stuff)
LF Floyd (he'll probably get hurt at some point)
RF Diaz/Nady
C Castro (career .220 or so, i'd like help here now that Jacobs is out)
2B Matsui/Hernandez/Keppinger (job should be up for grabs in ST)
P

this lineup still needs help, though it has improved considerably. i hope Beltran bats 2nd because one of those 2Bmen there would be awful. I'd like to see a bat in RF since there arent any i like at C or 2B available. Diaz deserves the chance in RF if we don't find someone better, i wouldn't platoon him unless necessary, i want to see what he can do playing every day.
if our current options at 2B don't change by opening day i would start whoever has the best spring and play them everyday until theysuck, then go to the next guy. i wouldnt want 2 guys each getting 3 games a week, i'd rather run someoe out there consistently until he either shows he has it or doesnt.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Jake has put up nice minor league numbers. He struggled in 2002 and was hurt in 2004, but outside of that he has a pretty spotless record.

His power, IMO, looks real. He started to develop some pop in 2003--mostly doubles--and those doubles turned into dingers in 2005. Around the same time, he started hitting for average, but he still doesn't walk much. Or didn't, until this year's Winter League, where he's walking a ton.

I dunno what to think about him. There's a chance he's one of those late bloomers who is slowly putting everything together and he'll be a .300, 25 HR guy who gets on base at a .350 clip, but most places I've seen project him to be a back-up 1B or MAYBE an average regular at first.

Petit has his detractors too, but his stats are sick sick sick and he's not slowing down this off-season . . .

[Centerfield]

Of course, I want it to be understood that no endorsement of this deal that I give in this or any other thread should be construed as some sort of relinquishment of my right to bitch and moan should Delgado suck next year.

If Carlos sucks, I knew this would happen and this is why you don't throw away good young prospects for expensive, aging DH-types.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think Delgado should be understood to have disrespected the Mets. At the time, his side reported their calculations that the Mets' contract was worth $30,000 more in present-day value. Out of $52,000,000, we're talking about a difference of about .06%. He probably thought he'd make up the difference in cheaper plane tickets to Puerto Rico.

[Valadius]

Delgado will shit the bed in every second half of the season that he's here. He's notorious for second-half slumps.

[Elster88]

Valadius wrote: Delgado will shit the bed in every second half of the season that he's here. He's notorious for second-half slumps.

Delgado's OPS

Pre All Star Break 2002 -- .861
Post All Star Break 2002 --- 1.100

Pre All Star Break 2003 -- 1.053
Post All Star Break 2003 -- .966

Pre All Star Break 2004 -- .746
Post All Star Break 2004 --- 1.033

Pre All Star Break 2005 -- .922
Post All Star Break 2005 --- 1.070
_______________________________________

Keep them coming guys. I love it!

[metirish]

Delgado post All-Star game in 05 had 208 AB in 58 games ,67 hits,15 doubles, 3 triples,15 homers,49 rbi,31 BB, 46 k's WITH A .322 AVG and his OBP was . 421...hardly shitting the bed...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits

his numbers for his career are good in the second half...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits?year=career&type=Batting

[seawolf17]

Stop ruining people's opinions with facts, guys.

[Elster88]

So far, the statistical evidence against the trade is Jacobs' many minor league seasons hitting more than 30 home runs and Delgado's poor performances in the second half.

I've got to calm down. I'm sure I've said some boneheaded things in the past, too.