Collective Bargaining Agreement

[Edgy MD]

One kind of weird thing is that MLB is proposing to cap the number of minor leaguers per system. This puts the MLBPA in the odd position of negotiating on behalf of non-member minor leaguers while trying to secure the best deal for their members.



While the union has historically seen the interest of minor leaguers as unaligned with or competitive with those of major league members, many in the union certainly realize they might have future opportunities as veterans in AAA curtailed under such a cap.



If, somehow, this could lead to minor leaguers organizing or the MLBPA beginning to work for their minor league counterparts, it could be a long summer, but also one of the more productive work stoppages in living memory.

[kcmets]

MLBTradeRumors:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlb-offers-5mm-increase-in-pre-arbitration-bonus-pool-in-latest-cba-proposal.htmlMLB Offers $5MM Increase In Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool In Latest CBA Proposal;

League No Longer Pursuing Authority To Shrink Minor League Rosters

[ashie62]

Unlimited options with9n a season?

[duan]

=ashie62 post_id=86115 time=1645558189 user_id=90]
Unlimited options with9n a season?

[Edgy MD]

The Mets do it a lot.



The notion is that, now that anything over five innings from a starting pitcher is a bonus, bigger bullpens are needed, and yo-yoing creates more available fresh arms. I mostly reject that notion as (1) a pitcher who gets sent down for a few days and comes back has the appearance of freshness, because you haven't seen him in a game, but (a) that doesn't mean he hasn't been used in AAA in the interim, and ( he's got the additional wear and tear from the round trip; and ( pitchers called to the big leagues need to make adjustments in order to get outs consistently, and they never get to do that if they get sent down after one or two outings.



So, yeah, I agree that there is some degree of service-time manipulation in the yo-yo game.

[MFS62]

=duan post_id=86150 time=1645633289 user_id=99]
=ashie62 post_id=86115 time=1645558189 user_id=90]
Unlimited options with9n a season?

[duan]

Edgy MD wrote: The Mets do it a lot. The notion is that, now that anything over five innings from a starting pitcher is a bonus, bigger bullpens are needed, and yo-yoing creates more available fresh arms. I mostly reject that notion as (1) a pitcher who gets sent down for a few days and comes back has the appearance of freshness, because you haven't seen him in a game, but (a) that doesn't mean he hasn't been used in AAA in the interim, and ( he's got the additional wear and tear from the round trip; and ( pitchers called to the big leagues need to make adjustments in order to get outs consistently, and they never get to do that if they get sent down after one or two outings. So, yeah, I agree that there is some degree of service-time manipulation in the yo-yo game.

But the knock would be the Mets are doing it with guys who aren't good enough to be on the 25 man in the first place not turning the 25 man into a de facto 28/29 man ….

[Frayed Knot]

So MLB is saying that if an agreement is not reached by Monday 2/28 games will start being cancelled, they will not be made up, and players are not going to be paid for any games not played.

The players have responded by saying they will not agree to the owners' pet project, expanded playoffs, unless they play a full 162.



Being a fan of neither a shortened season nor of expanded playoffs, I find this a bit of a dilemma.

[kcmets]

MLBTradeRumors:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlb-again-states-that-regular-season-games-would-be-canceled-if-no-cba-is-in-place-by-february-28.htmlMLB Again States That Regular Season Games Would Be Canceled If

No CBA Is In Place By February 28

[Edgy MD]

Is the owners' endgame really about expanded playoffs? That would be awful silly.



You're allowing teams to tank away a season without consequence, and instead of trying to fix that, you're trying to create a second, more profitable season after the season is done?

[Gwreck]

The owners (a) locked out the players; ( had the temerity to call it a “defensive” lockout; © claimed that the lockout would “jumpstart negotiations; and (d) then sat on their hands for 43 days before making an offer that wasn't even in the realm of what the players would reasonably consider.



To be now issuing deadlines is disingenuity of the highest order.

[kcmets]

ABCNews:

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireStory/key-proposals-major-league-baseball-labor-negotiations-83097202Key proposals in Major League Baseball labor negotiations

[kcmets]

Yahoo!Sports:

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-lockout-negotiations-turn-hostile-as-owners-reject-players-comprehensive-proposal-051135502.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHQV1Q_qWE54bE3o9mHSJKKu7Z8tyMN5HpcW4ojsE5LeJinu05AlH6UEtvhz_nObKnFUEHSJ3NJx_kFj2zbZIODI_03Npk8aAUKnIWmDggfxGdJCBqgURQ7cBsPE-yrGKrnViA8edrRtlkwblTfLS1lUIASmxYaKKC8fI7Juw8CNMLB lockout negotiations turn hostile as owners reject players' comprehensive proposal

[bmfc1]

Quoting Ken Rosenthal in today's "The Athletic": "The small- and mid-market clubs seemingly are dictating the league's hard-line positions...."



NYM, NYY, LAD, and, BOS are a majority of the teams that drive the ratings which enable the owners to get higher revenue from national TV deals and this revenue is split equally, even with AZ, PIT and BAL, and yet a majority of the owners want to stifle the owners of the very teams that bring it more revenue. This makes no sense, especially when the AZ, PIT, and BAL owners are under no obligation to spend that money for a better team. The mid- and small-owners want to bring the big markets down to their level.

[ashie62]

Players are deeply offended by saturday's talks to the point of maybe skipping todays talks scheduled to begin at 1pm.

[Frayed Knot]

So ... other than what is looking like a delayed season,

and a shortened season,

and one with a permanent DuH rule,

and one which, when and if it concludes, it will do so with a choice of either too many playoff teams or far too many playoff teams, ...

how's the off-season going so far?



But at least they fixed their time-of-game/pace-of-play issues ... oh wait!

[Gwreck]

Ken Rosenthal:

[bLOCKQUOTE] If commissioner Rob Manfred truly believes missing games will be a “disastrous outcome for the industry,” he sure does not appear to have convinced his bosses, the 30 major-league owners.

The players' union made moves on Saturday, moves it considered significant toward reaching a new collective-bargaining agreement. Major League Baseball responded by raising a collective middle finger.[/bLOCKQUOTE]

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm thinking that we'll be lucky if the season starts by June 1.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm thinking that we'll be lucky if the season starts by June 1.

By which point I'll be boycotting.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm thinking that we'll be lucky if the season starts by June 1.

So how is deGrom supposed to make the Hall of Fame? At this rate, he won't, even if he continues to pitch like a Hall of Famer. Late debut. 60% of a season lost to Covid. Half of another season lost to injury. Even when he's tip-top healthy, it's a minor miracle whenever he pitches into the 7th inning of a game. And now this.

[Edgy MD]

He's lost more than half a season to injury. For a large part, the late debut is due to injury.



I have no idea how Jacob deGrom is going to be able to fully realize the legacy he might have largely built by now, and I think about it a lot.



I get irrationally angry almost every time the hook comes for the starter. I consider that shit to also be anti-competitive, although not as intentionally so.

[The Hot Corner]

A long delay to the start of the season will significantly hurt the game in my view. The owners, and to a lesser degree the players, seem determined to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.



Baseball was a major part of my life as a kid and remained so into my early twenties. Marriage, family, and career gradually loosened baseball's hold on my life. With each successive labor stoppage, I found my fandom and interest waned a little more. I find myself rapidly losing interest and mentally preparing myself to move on with my life with MLB having a further diminished hold upon my interest.

[Frayed Knot]

So I guess the general consensus is that these assholes are going to fuck this up tonight, eh?



Small and mid-market owners seem to be driving the agenda and have no problems missing games in an attempt to get their way.

[Frayed Knot]

'Progress made' in talks that went into the wee hours but issues still remain.

Talks to resume at 11AM today with a new deadline of 5PM

[Fman99]

I predict they get it done today or tomorrow. They could potentially extend that deadline one more day if they feel they're close.



Serves em both right for dicking around all of December/January without even attempting negotiations.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Deal gets done today.



AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

https://arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YXEF44WUMZCALECCXXYDOEEDFU.jpg>

[bmfc1]

"Serves em both right for dicking around all of December/January without even attempting negotiations." From my perspective, MLB locked out the players and then dicked around for nine weeks so they have been dickier.

[bmfc1]

It appears that the two sides are closer to an agreement. The Players have been insistent on keeping the 162-game schedule (so they get their full salaries) but we should be in the first week of ST games already and the season is scheduled to start on March 31. I guess they could start camp ASAP (think of the player movement), move Opening Day back two weeks, and extend the season for a week while eliminating an off-day or two plus play some doubleheaders (which the Owners hate so they'll be the crappy day/night ones).



They agreed to expand the playoffs to 12 teams, and not 14 (out of 30!) as the Owners wanted. So? The two division winners with the best records get a first-round bye, the 3d plays 6 and 4 plays 5? There was also talk of giving the teams with the better records home field in every first-round game.



Another 12-team format:

[bLOCKQUOTE]Expand to three wild card teams in each league instead of four and have them play their own round that does not involve the division winners. For example, the bottom two wild cards play a one-game playoff, with the loser automatically eliminated. The winner of the first wild card game advances to play the top wild card team, with the winner of that game advancing to the Division Series and the loser going home

If MLB wants to give a better reward to the wild card teams, the second wild card "round" can be three games long instead of one. And all the games can be at the home park of the top wild card team in order to play them on three straight days and minimize travel

Expand the division series to seven games from five, which would remove part of the crapshoot nature of the current five-game division series -- and would make up for some of the lost revenue from going to 12 teams instead of 14

Since the 14-team proposal had the top division winner in each league sitting around while the three-game Wild Card round played out, the fact that they'd also sit around for days under this proposal shouldn't be an issue.

https://sny.tv/articles/mlb-playoffs-expanding-12-teams-2022?fbclid=IwAR0HtpP0xpzEhAhEA0O5gXnJkaPc0YMN-9XfpR-52-Q2rgBaBl5HsIbzuWohttps://sny.tv/articles/mlb-playoffs-expanding-12-teams-2022?fbclid=IwAR0HtpP0xpzEhAhEA0O5gXnJkaPc0YMN-9XfpR-52-Q2rgBaBl5HsIbzuWo

[/bLOCKQUOTE]

Edited March 1, 2022 by Guest

[kcmets]

"I'm telling you, Mean Gene, the owners have been a bunch of cork

smokin' pencil neck geeks!"

[Fman99]

"Serves em both right for dicking around all of December/January without even attempting negotiations." From my perspective, MLB locked out the players and then dicked around for nine weeks so they have been dickier.

Yeah but it's not like the players didn't know they were locked out. Were they pressing to get the owners to the table and find out how to get them to unlock the doors? I think no