Farewell to LOOGYs?

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: The "solution(s)" I often hear from those in the sports media who dislike baseball (iow: most of them) always seems to involve their ideas for there being significantly less baseball going forward (shorter games, shorter seasons, fewer teams, more off-days, no overlap with any other sport ever, etc.). I'll pass on that whole line of thinking if you don't mind.

This.

[LWFS]

Vic Sage wrote: =smg58 post_id=2445 time=1549477081 user_id=62] I think that anything that reduces strategy does not serve the best interests of the game. Especially if all the reductions in strategy benefit the offense. A boom in offensive production has not helped attendance levels, so stop assuming that's what people want. This does not mean that LOOGYs are necessarily a good thing. Having a pitcher on your roster who can't give you 60 good innings, especially if you're also trying to pitch your starters less, can certainly backfire. But the manager and GM should make those decisions, right or wrong, not the league.

a 3-hitter rule wouldn't reduce strategies; it would simply change strategies. What it reduces is wasted time and the value of specialists.

[Fman99]

The DH is to me still the most hateable of all of these proposals.

[Guest 41Forever]

I don't Like the DH at all. But I don't think it makes any sense to have half the teams playing with different rules, especially when there is at least one interleague game a day.



I'd rather see the AL eliminate it, but I don't think it will ever happen. So I'm resigned to DHs in the NL.

[Centerfield]

=41Forever post_id=2494 time=1549540124 user_id=69]
I don't Like the DH at all. But I don't think it makes any sense to have half the teams playing with different rules, especially when there is at least one interleague game a day.



I'd rather see the AL eliminate it, but I don't think it will ever happen. So I'm resigned to DHs in the NL.

[Centerfield]

Here's my proposal to make baseball better.



Get rid of the offseason. After the WS everyone takes a week off. They've earned their rest. Another week for trades, free agency etc. Nov 15 everyone stops fucking around and reports to spring training. Games start January 1.



Do it Manfred.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers. In today's game, the DH makes less sense than ever. Is it that much more fun to see a position player strike out instead of seeing a pitcher strike out?



I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game. If Bryce Harper is at bat with two out and runners on, do you bring the lefty in to face him and try to end the inning, knowing that if you don't get him out, your lefty is going to have to face two right-handed hitters in a situation that's gotten even worse? That could be really interesting. But I also like the option of just making pitching changes faster. As Frayed Knot has said, the number of warm-up pitches by relievers entering the game can be reduced or eliminated.



The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.



There's also talk of the start-the-inning-with-a-runner-on-second-base rules for extra-inning games in spring training and the All-Star Game. I think this rule is extraordinary stupid, but I don't care much about spring training or All-Star games. The main problem is that if it takes root in those venues then there's the possibility that it could end up polluting regular-season games, which would be a travesty.



There's also a proposal about service time, where that trick of bringing up a player in mid-April instead of at Opening Day will be negated if the player ends up having a high-quality rookie season. If, for example, the Mets bring up Alonso on April 15 and he wins the Rookie-of-the-Year (or hits some other targets) he'd get credit for the full year of service time and would be eligible for free agency after 2024. But if they do that and he's just ordinary, he'd have to wait until 2025. It's kind of strange to give preferential treatment to better players, but I can't get too worked up over this suggestion. I don't think it will deter teams from waiting those two weeks or so.



I've wanted to expand the 25-man roster for years now. I'd like to see a 27-man roster, preferably without the limit on pitchers, although my interest in the expanded roster is because I'd like to see more position players on the bench.



And forget about lowering the mound. If they keep doing this every time pitching is ascendant, in a few decades pitchers will be pitching out of a hole in the ground.



http://leaptoad.com/mets/covers/2019/20190207_NSD_02.jpg>http://leaptoad.com/mets/covers/2019/20190207_NYDN_02.jpg>

[duan]

You all know what I want.

PROMOTION AND RELEGATION. Punish people for bad performance. None of this rebuilding shit. Worst 3 records. DOWN.

Trade deadline stays the same, but as opposed to selling off their best players, the bottom teams will be desparately trying to acquire players to better them to stay up. From Japan, From Cuba, FROM WHEREVER just keep us up.



Honestly you guys have no idea the thrill of a relegation dog fight -



https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-footballhttps://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-football



watch these and enjoy.

Remember on each occasion these were usually teams placed 17th (or 19th when it was a 22 team division) playing a team that was 11th or something like that on the last day of the season.

Look at the passion. Look at the joy!

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: And I'll pass on the overengineering something that's been pretty good for a long time. You end up creating unintended negative consequences, which you have to deal with through more engineering, which has more unintended consequences, and pretty soon, we're living out the plot to Ωmega Man.

Beware the mutant!

We may soon see hordes of creatures wearing baseball uniforms who are only capable of hitting, but not fielding.

Oh, wait.

Later

[duan]

also in particular look at the TORQUAY, 1986/87 -

this is a club that was bottom of division 4 in the football league on the day in question, that means they were effectively in 92nd place in the the professional football system. I can't think of an obvious equivalent but the today's average salary for clubs in that area is about $800-1,000 per week.

Whereas in the premier league it's about $80,000-100,000 per week

[smg58]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers.

I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game.

I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.

I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers. I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match. Benjamin Grimm wrote: I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game. I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything. Benjamin Grimm wrote: The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see. I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.

smg for commish.

[whippoorwill]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers. I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match. Benjamin Grimm wrote: I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game. I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything. Benjamin Grimm wrote: The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see. I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.

The Pirates have had some good seasons lately. Pittsburgh fans are wild about their guys.

[G-Fafif]

When I think of LOOGYness, I think of Dario Alvarez coming into face Bryce Harper in a tie game on Labor Day 2015, when the NL East hung in the balance, and Alvarez striking him out on a full count to end the inning. The next half-inning brought three Mets runs, the third of them punctuated by the iconic David Wright fist pump. We won the game, swept the Nats in that series and all but nailed down the division. Alvarez's one-batter appearance was a true pivot point, LOOGYing at its best.



For all the hurry up and wait pertaining to multiple pitching changes, I'd prefer a moment like that -- and a role like that -- not be disappeared from baseball.

[Centerfield]

=G-Fafif post_id=2526 time=1549563884 user_id=55]
When I think of LOOGYness, I think of Dario Alvarez coming into face Bryce Harper in a tie game on Labor Day 2015, when the NL East hung in the balance, and Alvarez striking him out on a full count to end the inning. The next half-inning brought three Mets runs, the third of them punctuated by the iconic David Wright fist pump. We won the game, swept the Nats in that series and all but nailed down the division. Alvarez's one-batter appearance was a true pivot point, LOOGYing at its best.



For all the hurry up and wait pertaining to multiple pitching changes, I'd prefer a moment like that -- and a role like that -- not be disappeared from baseball.

[Benjamin Grimm]

They should have the bullpens in an underground cavern beneath the pitcher's mound. Then when a new pitcher comes into the game, the mound will hinge open and the new guy will just have to come up the stairs.

[Frayed Knot]

=Centerfield post_id=2530 time=1549566192 user_id=65]If we want to speed up the game, follow FK's suggestion about warm up pitches, and rig those bullpen carts to travel 75 MPH.

[nymr83]

Here's my proposal to make baseball better. Get rid of the offseason. After the WS everyone takes a week off. They've earned their rest. Another week for trades, free agency etc. Nov 15 everyone stops fucking around and reports to spring training. Games start January 1. Do it Manfred.

As much as I love this idea, there are issues to work through...



https://i.pinimg.com/474x/de/27/75/de2775e051f0d595a6cebffde6be8e4c--tiger-stadium-detroit-tigers.jpg>

[Centerfield]

Well, first of all, climate change. Eventually there will be no such thing as winter.



In the interim, the answer is simple. All cold-weather teams pick a warm weather destination to play the first few months of the season. Sure, you can be boring and pick your spring training facility. But forward thinkers will pick Aruba. Bermuda. Curacao. The Virgin Islands. Fans will plan their vacations around them. Invigorate the local communities.



YEAR ROUND BASEBALL.

[Edgy MD]

You all know what I want. PROMOTION AND RELEGATION. Punish people for bad performance. None of this rebuilding shit. Worst 3 records. DOWN. Trade deadline stays the same, but as opposed to selling off their best players, the bottom teams will be desparately trying to acquire players to better them to stay up. From Japan, From Cuba, FROM WHEREVER just keep us up. Honestly you guys have no idea the thrill of a relegation dog fight - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-footballhttps://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-football watch these and enjoy. Remember on each occasion these were usually teams placed 17th (or 19th when it was a 22 team division) playing a team that was 11th or something like that on the last day of the season. Look at the passion. Look at the joy!

Let duan preach!

[metsmarathon]

i think that if you cut down on the time between pitches, and the time between pitching changes, and the time between innings, you'd solve so much of the "problem" with baseball. you'd have fewer commericals, but you might be able to charge more for each one!



i'd love to see relegation, but i don't think it remotely possible with the way the minor leagues are constructed. it would be great, though, for a major league team like the marlins to get replaced by their own minor league affiliate in the new orleans baby cakes.



i think the revised draft order with the first pick going to the first team to miss the playoffs is the next best thing. it would put a hell of a lot more jeopardy on that wild card plain game, now wouldn't it? i wonder if you would ever have a team try to not make the play-in if they were a real long shot, just so they could have the first pick instead of the 23rd (or whatever)....? but you need to reward teams for competing, especially if so much of the revenues come from league-wide sources and so much less of it is tied directly to their on-field success.

[duan]

Oh don't get me wrong, I know with the current set up of Minor League Affiliation you couldn't have promotion & relegation. But I do think American sports misses SO much by not having it.

[Frayed Knot]

Manfred says No changes to the DH rules or the draft procedures this year.

Continuing talks will focus on pace of play adjustments for 2019.

[Fman99]

Frayed Knot wrote: Manfred says No changes to the DH rules or the draft procedures this year.

Good.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, but the universal DH increasingly sounds like it's a matter of when rather than if.





This is like how bad governments act:

OK, here's a rule that has been both unpopular and controversial since it was put in on an experimental basis as an antidote to conditions that no longer exist.

But we now feel we have no choice but to expand it because temporary has turned into 46 years while we were doing nothing about it and so now it's been entrenched for so long we don't know how to end it.







Back, I think it was in the 1930's, this country built up an 'emergency helium supply' just in case a war broke out and zeppelins were crucial to winning it. That of course never happened but that didn't stop the helium reserve from existing into the 1990s because: a) they had it; didn't know what to do with it; c) and it provided jobs in some Congressman's district for some connected schlubs to make sure none of our enemies snuck in during the night and stole it all.

Your tax money at work!!

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, but the universal DH increasingly sounds like it's a matter of when rather than if.





This is like how bad governments act:

OK, here's a rule that has been both unpopular and controversial since it was put in on an experimental basis as an antidote to conditions that no longer exist.

But we now feel we have no choice but to expand it because temporary has turned into 46 years while we were doing nothing about it and so now it's been entrenched for so long we don't know how to end it.







Back, I think it was in the 1930's, this country built up an 'emergency helium supply' just in case a war broke out and zeppelins were crucial to winning it. That of course never happened but that didn't stop the helium reserve from existing into the 1990s because: a) they had it; didn't know what else to do with it; c) and it provided jobs in some Congressman's district for some connected schlubs to make sure none of our enemies snuck in during the night and stole it all.

Your tax money at work!!