If we bring back Bartolo ...

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

... What do we ask him to do?

We have, in theory, five starters.
We have two young and kind of proven young starters in Lugo and Gsellman.

We know there will be the inevitable injuries, but do we stash Bart in the pen until one breaks down?

Do we start Bart in the rotation and start Wheeler in the pen to ease him back?

Do we trade some pitching to fill one of the other needs, keeping Bartolo for the rotation?

Can we expect him to be decent again at 44?

[seawolf17]

I think it's too early to tell -- particularly with the question mark that is Wheeler -- but I'd love to have him as an option. He led the NL in BB/9 this year among all qualified starters; he can definitely still bring SOMETHING to the table.

[Frayed Knot]

I think a big snag is that Bartolo wants to start and that potentially reaching the most wins mark for Latin pitchers is important to him (he sits 12 behind Dennis Martinez and 10 behind Marichal's mark for Dominicans).
With that in mind, there are probably a bunch of teams that could offer him a higher assurance of a permanent rotation spot.

[smg58]

He re-upped with us this past season, at a time when it looked like he was just keeping a seat warm for Wheeler. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we have trouble finding innings for him this time around. Lugo and Gsellman might limit what I'd be willing to pay to bring him back, but they shouldn't be deal-breakers from either side's perspective.

[Guest cooby]

I like him. Let's keep him around. He has more than earned a spot in a tattered rotation

[Edgy MD]

Lugo and Gsellman's success last year certainly change the equation, as does Colón being a year older. But Wheeler's status isn't that different from where it was at the start year. Yeah, the target is probably closer than mid-season, but the likelihood of him coming back with enough to get a lock on a rotation spot is probably lower.

And Harvey has to learn how to pitch with one fewer rib. So there's an argument for Colón, certainly, if not quite the same one as last year.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett.

... and perhaps Sean Gilmartin.

[TransMonk]

I think Wheeler, Harvey and Matz are ALL major question marks as to how much they can give in early (if not all of) 2017.

It seems to me that we could always find a spot for Colon.

[Frayed Knot]

All I'm saying is that, as a FA, Bart has a say in this and it's not going to be easy to look at him with a straight face and tell him how many starts he's likely to get.
At least last year there was an implied half-season's worth which unexpectedly turned into a full season. Going into 2017 though, if all of Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Colon, Wheeler, and Gsellman are healthy at the end of ST then two of them are going to be without a chair when the music stops and from his point of view it'll be tough to sign on thinking you could be the odd man out and from the team's side it'll tough to pay somewhere in the $10-$15 mil range for a middle reliever/spot starter.

[Centerfield]

Bart really makes you decide between the head and heart.

As a baseball decision, it really doesn't make much sense. You have seven young, controllable pitchers that are expected to be healthy next spring. Even if two falter, you have a complete rotation.

And the offense is in so much need of upgrading, and the bullpen could use a few arms, it almost seems silly to waste any money on the rotation.

But hell, I just can't imagine the thought of not having him around. He's just so much fun.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, Colon is another guy that Mets can/should get only if he comes on ther terms. As noted, lots of internal options, and also, veteran hurlers who can be 5th starters/caddies are in goodly supply generally even if not at Colon's level of quality or fun.

[Vic Sage]

I think it IS good baseball sense to bring him back. He's either a reliable back of the rotation starter (on a roster stuffed with health issues), or at worst, a spot-starter/long-man/middle-inning guy i'd trust more than Robles, Goeddel, Henderson, Verrett, Gilmartin or any other suspects they currently have. The only decision to be made is about $$. But that's not a baseball decision, that's a decision about expenses. The real baseball decision is for Bartolo, who wants to be in a starting rotation so he can get those wins. If he is offered the exact same money from the Mets and some other team, it would be HIS option to choose heart over head, to choose staying with guys and a team in a city where he's a folk hero, or to leave as a mercenary to fill out his resume.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Lugo and Gsellman are hardly "proven", and don't possess overpowering heat. Let's see what they can do the second time around the league. I'm a bit skeptical.

[Centerfield]

Vic Sage wrote: I think it IS good baseball sense to bring him back. He's either a reliable back of the rotation starter (on a roster stuffed with health issues), or at worst, a spot-starter/long-man/middle-inning guy i'd trust more than Robles, Goeddel, Henderson, Verrett, Gilmartin or any other suspects they currently have. The only decision to be made is about $$. But that's not a baseball decision, that's a decision about expenses. The real baseball decision is for Bartolo, who wants to be in a starting rotation so he can get those wins. If he is offered the exact same money from the Mets and some other team, it would be HIS option to choose heart over head, to choose staying with guys and a team in a city where he's a folk hero, or to leave as a mercenary to fill out his resume.

Yeah, that's true. It makes good baseball sense to bring him back. The question is whether it makes financial sense, given the other needs and the limited resources (we assume).

Another baseball reason is that it's been widely reported that other pitchers learn from Bartolo. So that's something.

[Fman99]

Edgy MD wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett. ... and perhaps Sean Gilmartin.

I don't think either of those two had the kind of sustained success as starters that Lugo and Gazelle-man did this past year.

But I still want Big Sexy back. Every non-Thor starter from the spring training rotation had some kind of health issue in various states of resolution when the season ended (aside from Barto). Lots of question marks there.

[RealityChuck]

Look, if the other pitchers come through, you can always trade Colon to an AL contender.

[seawolf17]

RealityChuck wrote: Look, if the other pitchers come through, you can always trade Colon to an AL contender.

Of course! They could use him as a DH on his off days. Good thought.

[Lefty Specialist]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: ... What do we ask him to do?

Be Jeff Wilpon's food taster?

Bartolo gave the Mets a solid (actually more than solid) season in 2016. You'd be signing him to do in 2017 what he should have done in 2016, except that the injuries of other players intervened. Ride the horse til it drops.

[ashie62]

We need Bart. You just know he will be our number 2 at some point.

Out of Harvey deGrom and Matz I would be happy if one came back and ecstatic if we 2 or 3 made it back.

Wheeler? I hope he saved his money.

[Centerfield]

That's the other thing. Wheeler was no ace even before he got hurt.

[TransMonk]

Centerfield wrote: That's the other thing. Wheeler was no ace even before he got hurt.

Well, wait, wait, wait. I'm not claiming that Wheeler will come back at or near what he was...but what he was was more than enough to positively contribute to a rotation that has a healthy Thor, Harvey and de Grom.

Ace? No, but he put up the numbers that most #4s strive for before he got hurt. And he throws heat.

[Vic Sage]

well, Wheeler isn't going to counted on to be an ace. He'll be asked to hold down the #5 spot in the rotation. His stuff clearly makes this a job well within his reach. If he surpasses those expectations, then great. If he can't, then hopefully Big Sexy is there to step into the breach once more

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I have too little faith in a successful return by Wheeler and I fear that Matz's persistent injuries will continue to have him in and out of the rotation, so I see Colon as a solid 5th starter. If miraculously, all of our young starters return to pitch well and remain healthy, then Colon can work out of the bullpen. IN a best case scenario, all of the pitchers (including Colon) return and pitch effectively, then one of the younger arms (not DeGrom or Syndergaard) can be used traded to fill other needs on the team.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He's our sixth starter, then, obviously. Any team that's serious about winning needs, like, 7 or 8.

[Frayed Knot]

But then back to my earlier question: Does Colon, wanting his starts and wanting to tally as many 'W's as possible before his clock inevitably strikes midnight (at least we think it's inevitable), sign with a club whose hopeful intention is to NOT use him as a regular starter?

I think he'd like to return here, but he also has to balance that against any offers floated his way that essentially assure him of getting the ball every fifth day for as long as he proves worthy. The one thing we know, barring some off-season diagnosis of sleeping sickness with any one of the younger quintet (it's the lone condition none of the five have contracted yet), is that he's not getting that guarantee in Queens.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I agree. I think Colon is more likely to leave than to stay.

[Centerfield]

I realize that if Zack Wheeler is healthy, you start him over Bartolo Colon. The money, the upside, and the age make it a no-brainer. But I'm not sure that for 2017 Zack Wheeler is better than Bartolo.

Bartolo just went 15-8 with a 3.43 ERA. His WHIP was 1.21. In his prior Met years, his ERA was higher (3.90 as a Met overall) but his WHIP was pretty consistent. (1.21, 1.24, 1.23).

Zack Wheeler has a good career ERA of 3.50, but his WHIP has been 1.36, and 1.33. In his last full season, he walked 79 batters in 32 starts, 185 innings. Colon, by comparison, walked 32 batters, in 191 innings over 34 starts.

And this was before Wheeler got hurt.

Now this is not to say you should sign Colon, or that he's likely to come back. Just that when you assess this situation, Bartolo might actually be better than Wheeler. Maybe.

[A Boy Named Seo]

My cell phone [via Jon Heyman via twitter] sez that Bart has agreed terms with another team.

Edit: someone wanna learn me how the 'tweet' button works with creating/editing a post here?

Edit Edit: Bart to the Braves.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Oh well. I figured he was likely gone.

He turned out to be an essential part of the Mets in 2016. I hope we don't end up needing him nearly as much next season as we did this season.