Hurry, let's chat about De Aza before it's too late

[Centerfield]

More expensive than originally reported. $5.75. Incentives can take it up to $ 7 million.

[ashie62]

Eliminates a signing of Cespedes or another big bat.

Shite.

[Mex17]

Centerfield wrote: More expensive than originally reported. $5.75. Incentives can take it up to $ 7 million.

Is there a link for this?

[TransMonk]

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[Mex17]

I know that Heyman said "platoon" but leading up to this I have been hearing the word "compliment" more often when people in the media have been talking about what the Mets have in mind in relation to Lagares for whichever lefty bat they were going to get for the outfield. In a strict lefty-righty platoon, the lefty is going to get way more playing time than the righty. I personally do not think that they are going to keep Lagares's glove on the bench that much if the drop-off to De Aza is that pronounced. De Aza will play CF against really tough rightys and when Lagares needs rest, but he can also be a lefty pinch hitter off the bench and can spell Conforto in LF too so that the kid is not so overwhelmed in his first full season in the bigs. He can even spell Granderson in RF as well so as to maximize Grandy's performance in his age-35 year.

Lagares's best season (2014) had him up to the plate overall 416 times. De Aza's 2015 splits had him up against rightys 281 times. My guess is that TC has those AB numbers in mind as a goal for each player.

[Edgy MD]

I concur that folks saying platoon should probably be saying complement.

[Centerfield]

One nice aspect of this deal is that the media isfinally giving it to the Wilpons. John Harper called them out on their own station.

https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/baseball-night-in-ny-de-aza/160283260

Craig Calcaterra called them out on NBC.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/12/22/the-mets-are-blowing-a-golden-opportunity/

The Mets baseball operations side and Mets fans are paying for Wilpon and Katz’s greed, stupidity and recklessness.

Nice.

Mike Vaccarro at the Post:

http://nypost.com/2015/12/22/world-series-berth-doesnt-give-mets-a-penny-pinching-pass/

Because once you were there — stuffing their coffers with ticket sales, parking fees and merchandise riches — then they’d repay the favor. Then they’d start acting the part again. Just wait. On Tuesday afternoon, this is what the men who own the Mets gave you, not only for grinding through those unwatchable years from 2009-14, but for responding in force in 2015 when the skies brightened at Citi Field and the Mets gave you a summer and autumn out of your craziest fantasies, when you sold out seven home playoff games, and bought enough stuff that when you walk around the city these days, Mets gear is practically a parochial school uniform now. They gave you Alejandro De Aza.

Poor De Aza. I hope he doesn't become the symbol of the Wilpons' failures this winter. The way Cuddyer became the poster boy for last winter.

But maybe this move is what it took for everyone to realize how awful the Wilpons are.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Guest

[Guest d'Kong76]

[fimg=100:193xt4hq]http://www.adweek.com/fishbowldc/files/2012/12/A_little_bird_IMG_5866.JPG1_1-300x225.jpg[/fimg:193xt4hq].[fimg=100:193xt4hq]http://www.adweek.com/fishbowldc/files/2012/12/A_little_bird_IMG_5866.JPG1_1-300x225.jpg[/fimg:193xt4hq].[fimg=100:193xt4hq]http://www.adweek.com/fishbowldc/files/2012/12/A_little_bird_IMG_5866.JPG1_1-300x225.jpg[/fimg:193xt4hq]
****cheap********cheap********cheap****

[Edgy MD]

That NBC story is just piggybacking on Megdal.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: That NBC story is just piggybacking on Megdal.

Sure. But he's taking Megdal's work, crediting him, and then opening him up to a bigger, national audience.

[MFS62]

Sort of like unbuttered popcorn.
OK, I guess.
My gut says it could have been better.

I'm just whelmed.

Later

[Centerfield]

Ken Rosenthal joins the party:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/ken-rosenthal-new-york-mets-not-spending-offseason-money-like-world-series-contender-122215

The Mets’ commitments for 2016 are about $100.5 million for 16 players, including arbitration projections from MLBTradeRumors.com. Nine others -- including starting pitchers Jacob de Grom, Noah Syndergaard and Steven Matz, catcher Travis d’Arnaud and left fielder Michael Conforto -- figure to be at the $507,500 minimum salary or slightly above it. So, while general manager Sandy Alderson said recently that the payroll will be at “a higher level,” the best guess at the moment is not much higher.

Hey look! He's playing coked up accountant!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: That NBC story is just piggybacking on Megdal.

Good. No. Great. Grrrrrrrrreat! Like Tony the Tiger would've said it. I know how repetitive Megdal must seem to many here, but it'd be fine with me if Megdal, instead of rehashing essentially the same Mets and Madoff story twice a month, regurgitated that same story twice a day. Megdal probably isn't effective here because this forum is, for the most part, comprised of hard-core, extremely knowledgeable Mets fans who know all this. But you'd be surprised how many Mets fans there are out there that are sorta clueless about the front office's escapades and dire financial situation. And the situation is so outrageous, so fucking scandalous, with MLB looking the other way and whitewashing the whole Mets/Madoff affair, insulting every knowledgeable Mets fan along the way by refusing to acknowledge that anything is wrong, that the story should be told as often as possible. I never get bored of reading these pieces. It's an outlet for my frustrations with the owners. Maybe if the story is repeated ad nauseum, then, just maybe, MLB might bow to the extreme pressure that should be put on it but isn't, to finally give this ownership group the boot that it deserves.

[Edgy MD]

Again, it's not that he's redundant. It's that he's a fake journalist playing at professionalism. That he has had the Mets owners in his crosshairs has no bearing on that one way or another. It's given him a brand that has elevated his profile in a way that his professional skills could not.

It is what it is. It's 2015, and the world has made it clear that they'd rather read a fake journalist that confirms their opinions than a real one that deals responsibly in facts. But I sure wish Mets fans didn't.

[Gwreck]

You can complain about Megdal all you want but let's not pretend the facts aren't there.

The Mets ownership is not spending money commensurate with their market position. That is a fact.

[Edgy MD]

I don't want to complain about Megdal. I'm responding to what was written.

With regard to payroll and market position, I haven't asserted otherwise. Also a fact!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: It's that he's a fake journalist playing at professionalism.

Could you clarify this? I'm not sure what you mean by this. It sure does sound like a mouthful, though.

[Edgy MD]

What's to clarify? He has an agenda and he pretends his opinions are facts that he's uncovered when they aren't.

I'm embarrassed. It's middle school garbage. And he's winning. For all the wrong reasons.

We've been down this road enough. It usually goes bad around here.

[Vic Sage]

question: Cespedes or Upton?
answer: de Aza

Ladies and gentlemen, your New York Mets.

Little did i know that my prediction of Parra was OPTIMISTIC.

Fuck you, too, Fred. Is it too late to abort Jeffy?

[metsmarathon]

the pretty much unanimous opinion on the MLBradio station on the satellites is that this is a terrible, and terribly offensive signing if it indeed marks the culmination of the metly off season free agency activity.

I'm holding out unrealistic hope that I will not be channeling µmmL's hulk-rage as spring approaches.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

I've pivoted from delusional thoughts of a Cespedes return to dreams of Duda traded and Davis signed.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: What's to clarify? He has an agenda and he pretends his opinions are facts that he's uncovered when they aren't. I'm embarrassed. It's middle school garbage. And he's winning. For all the wrong reasons. We've been down this road enough. It usually goes bad around here.

What specifically do you think he's trying to pass off as fact that is not true?

[Guest d'Kong76]

I wonder if Howard reads this forum. I thought he registered sometime
ago but I quickly looked at poster list and don't see a handle.

Vic Sage wrote: Fuck you, too, Fred. Is it too late to abort Jeffy?

Ah! Fuck this and fuck that
Fuck it all tha fuck out of the fucking brat
She don't wanna a baby that looks like that
I don't wanna a baby that looks like that

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: What's to clarify? He has an agenda and he pretends his opinions are facts that he's uncovered when they aren't. I'm embarrassed. It's middle school garbage. And he's winning. For all the wrong reasons. We've been down this road enough. It usually goes bad around here. What specifically do you think he's trying to pass off as fact that is not true?

according to him the Mets would be buried under so much debt that creditors would demand they sell the team by 2015 or so when 'loans come due' and the situation only gets better and better for the Wilpons.

There is zero. ZERO. chance that the Wilpons sell by anything other than their own volition. Maybe 0.000001% in some unforeseen disaster, but even then I'd bet they're insured and protected and would actually make out. You can rant against them all you want, but it's just boring. nothing is going to change. You can joke about PR disasters all you for when they talk, or when they don't talk, or they say what you don't want, or they avoid saying what you want. But ultimately it doesn't matter. They are the owners of the team. They always will be.

The team went to the World Series and are favorites to make the playoffs again, ultimately that's what I watch baseball for. The manager gets credit for the team when it wins. The GM gets credit when seemingly bad signings or trades work out. And the owners ultimately get credit when the franchise continues to win. If the Mets continue to win, even with only a moderately higher payroll and nab a title during this decade? You're going to be reading Wilpon redemption stories. Prepare yourself.

There is also ZERO indication that this De Aza signing is going to prevent them from paying Cespedes if his contract falls into a generally acceptable range (which 6/130 is probably not).
This stuff is just so tedious, and it's a knee-jerk reaction to a bit signing and if you believe 'unnamed sources' about his role on the team you clearly haven't been paying attention because that's not how it works. If he doesn't hit, he's not going to be playing very much.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Ceetar wrote: You can rant against them all you want, but it's just boring. nothing is going to change.

Facts are not boring, facts are fun! They suck ass and are cheaping
us out again and lied about it again. Fact!

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: You can rant against them all you want, but it's just boring. nothing is going to change. Facts are not boring, facts are fun! They suck ass and are cheaping us out again and lied about it again. Fact!

Depends which anonymous sources you believe of course, but sure. You can pretty much find one of those to fit most narratives.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Just snap, please. Sandy Alderson isn't an anonymous source. He's the
horses mouth and said he's not financially constrained. A horse is a horse
of course of course and no one can talk to a horse of course.

[Edgy MD]

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: What's to clarify? He has an agenda and he pretends his opinions are facts that he's uncovered when they aren't. I'm embarrassed. It's middle school garbage. And he's winning. For all the wrong reasons. We've been down this road enough. It usually goes bad around here. What specifically do you think he's trying to pass off as fact that is not true?

I don't have time to tear down, blow-by-blow, his opinion-stated-as-fact act. You've said as much, yourself.

I'll just go with, "Fred Wilpon, in what was his most recent press conference back in February 2013, happily acknowledged having diverted revenue toward both corporate and family debt."

The article he links to says nothing of the sort. Even under the most tortured reading, it's just not there. You have to be religiously committed to that conclusion to glean it from that article.

Howard never even asserted this until recent months, so it's absurd that he's now claiming we've all had the smoking gun since February 2013. But now he's asserted it so much that he simply believes it has been established through repetition to be true. It may well BE true that the Wilpon family is withdrawing money from the organization to pay for personal debts, but he certainly hasn't established anything like this with the facts he's assembled, and that article sure isn't any proof. But now it's all over the internet, being asserted as a matter of fact.

That's just one of the many facts he casually fudges.

If that's what people want, it's what they want. I think it's embarrassing to see reposted here.

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Just snap, please. Sandy Alderson isn't an anonymous source. He's the horses mouth and said he's not financially constrained. A horse is a horse of course of course and no one can talk to a horse of course.

nothing Sandy says publicly should be taken at face value. It's ALL spin. in fact, all of it is spin. First clue is that of course he's financially constrained, as everybody is. even the Dodgers are making certain decisions with finances in mind.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: I'll just go with, "Fred Wilpon, in what was his most recent press conference back in February 2013, happily acknowledged having diverted revenue toward both corporate and family debt." The article he links to says nothing of the sort. Even under the most tortured reading, it's just not there. You have to be religiously committed to that conclusion to glean it from that article.

I don't know Edgy. I think Andy Martino in that article is suggesting that this was the case.

Wilpon also provided a new explanation for the Mets’ austerity over the past several years, saying that the payroll contracted as ownership paid down debt. “That’s what made us tight,” Wilpon, 76, said. “We were still getting revenues, lots of revenues, but those revenues were going to pay off debt. That’s done.”

More.

Given all those factors, Wilpon was asked, was Madoff even the primary reason for the trimming of payroll? “I think there is a balance there,” he said. “It wasn’t, as people have written, the reason. There was a balance there because we had to make sure that the banks got paid off all of the debt.

I mean, that's as close to an admission as you are going to get no? I don't think he was "happily acknowledging" it as Megdal writes, but I think that Megdal's conclusion is a fairly reasonable one.