Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

[soupcan]

This is a thing?

[Lefty Specialist]

Some clips of him on Fatcessa saying the Mets have so many options at second (Flores/Herrera, et al.) that Murph might not be their best use of funds. He said his game has holes which is absolutely correct. He pointed out the fielding problems and brain farts.

He was rather blunt about it and the sportsyakkers are going off because there's nothing else to complain about. Murphy's playing like Babe Ruth's older brother and Ryne Sandberg rolled together this postseason, so it's instantly a scandal because everybody knows Daniel will sustain this HR pace for the life of a long-term contract. I mean, at this pace he'd hit 115 home runs a year.

[soupcan]

Gotcha. Thanks. I figured it was something like that.

I do greatly dislike the two boobs on WFAN in the morning.

[dgwphotography]

Actually, Cohen was on Joe and Evan. The clip is on this page from last Wednesday:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/joe-benigno-and-evan-roberts/

[Lefty Specialist]

I'd actually heard the clips on Mike & Mike in the morning of all places, so I didn't hear the whole thing in context.

But the point remains. Gary isn't convinced Murph is the best fit going forward. Easy to jump on him now, but during the season, Murph was a slightly above-average hitter with a modest amount of pop who was a below average fielder prone to gaffes in the field and on the bases. And Dilson Herrera and Wilmer Flores are going to need places to play.

[dgwphotography]

Lefty Specialist wrote: I'd actually heard the clips on Mike & Mike in the morning of all places, so I didn't hear the whole thing in context. But the point remains. Gary isn't convinced Murph is the best fit going forward. Easy to jump on him now, but during the season, Murph was a slightly above-average hitter with a modest amount of pop who was a below average fielder prone to gaffes in the field and on the bases. And Dilson Herrera and Wilmer Flores are going to need places to play.

I saw an interesting stat regarding Murphy's numbers since the Cespedes trade showing the difference between Cespedes hitting directly behind Murphy and when he isn't. the difference is eye-opening.

[Centerfield]

Gary is right. Spend the money on Cespedes. Let the Dilson Herrera Era begin.

Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too.

I'd love to bring him back on a 1 year deal, but he will sign a long-term deal elsewhere.

[Ceetar]

I've been saying the Mets will offer Murphy the Qualifying offer and let him walk all season, nothing that happens over a small sample of games, however important, will change that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

They should certainly offer him the QO.

[Fman99]

soupcan wrote: I do greatly dislike the two boobs

Your words hurt.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

We should probably stop speculating on the offseason while there's still important work to do but I myself am seeing the opportunity for more Muffy than I used to given the uncertainty at 3rd and 1st we're also seeing. Did not think I'd come around to that.

[ashie62]

I see Muffy getting the bigger bucks in somewhere other than Citifield.

[seawolf17]

Centerfield wrote: Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too.

You know, I can't get that comparison out of my head either. And that's a good thing.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

seawolf17 wrote: Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too. You know, I can't get that comparison out of my head either. And that's a good thing.

I like the Murphy-Knight comparison better than the one I've seen Yankees fans making on Twitter: Brosius.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Enjoying the hell out of the run that Moiph is on but we all never
really expected his return and I'm fine with him getting his big payday
somewhere else. Preferably in the AL out west somewhere.

Let's Go Moiph!!!

[Frayed Knot]

dgwphotography wrote: Actually, Cohen was on Joe and Evan. The clip is on this page from last Wednesday: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/joe-benigno-and-evan-roberts/

Not that I disagree with Cohen's overall assessment on the (well known) drawbacks of Murphy or the prospects of signing him, but I was surprised by his use of the term "net negative" to describe him. He was much more negative to Murph than I expected or even thought warranted.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think Daniel Murphy has more good years ahead of him right now than Ray Knight had after 1986. And I'm not just saying that in hindsight; Knight was a past-his-prime player who had a well-timed (and temporary) comeback in 1986.

But enough about Ray Knight... I wish Murphy still had one more year left on his contract, because I don't think he'll be so easily replaced in 2016. Is Dilson Herrera ready to step in and be a productive hitter at the age of 22? Maybe... but if he can't produce close to what Murphy did the Mets will have taken a step back in their offense, especially if (as is likely) Cespedes departs as well.

I'm not spending too much time these days worrying about 2016; the 2015 ride is still too much fun. But I do want another division title next year, and the Mets will have a challenging offseason. I'd hate to see them go back to the offense that they had the first half of this year although, if healthy, Wright, d'Arnaud, and Conforto should be an upgrade over Campbell, Plawecki, and Cuddyer.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: if healthy, Wright, d'Arnaud, and Conforto should be an upgrade over Campbell, Plawecki, and Cuddyer.

That's some cautious-assed optimism.

Me, I'm fee-URIOUS that we're letting the cart get ahead of the horse here. Murphy should not be reading stories about how the Mets are going to let him walk. He should be reading stories about how is an unrelenting demon, making a travesty of this whole playoff thing.

[TransMonk]

Yeah, a lot of this talk is a couple weeks premature, but...

I have no problem extending a QO to Daniel, but I hope the Mets continue to pick and develop youngsters rather than having to overpay for and give long-term contracts to players that are on the wrong side of 30. With the type of player Murphy is and the output he gives, I'm not sure his decline will be as significant, but I hope the Mets stay the course on the commitment to youth.

That said, my biggest worry about replacing Murph with Herrera is the loss of the lefty bat as a middle infield option...followed closely by losing the backup at first and third.

[Centerfield]

Part of the reason I want this ride to keep going is that I don't know when the Mets will put this complete a team out there again. Right now, we have all four aces healthy, the entire starting lineup healthy, we have 2 extra starters in the bullpen, and a deep bench.

All of this materialized because our young talent developed while the old guard was still here. This type of depth probably cannot be duplicated.

I believe we will be a weaker team next year, even if we bring back Cespedes.

We have to hope that Alderson can mix and match and find the right combination of players to make another playoff push in the years to come.

But, as everyone acknowledges, this is a subject for another day.

[Gwreck]

TransMonk wrote: That said, my biggest worry about replacing Murph with Herrera is the loss of the lefty bat as a middle infield option...followed closely by losing the backup at first and third.

Can't we just re-sign Kelly Johnson to be that backup?

---
I do think that the Mets can afford to lose Cespedes and Murphy so long as they are adequately replaced. I'd probably rather the Mets overpay for Justin Upton (2 years younger than Cespedes) than either Murph or Cespedes.

[Gwreck]

Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it. Gives us one year of him and then we can sign Neil Walker of the Pirates as a free agent after 2016.

Walker...he's just like Murphy without the mental errors and better defense.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Gwreck wrote: Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it.

I agree with that. I think we can use him for one more year.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it.

[TransMonk]

Gwreck wrote: Can't we just re-sign Kelly Johnson to be that backup?

Gwreck wrote: Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it.

Yes and yes.

[Benjamin Grimm]

d'Kong76 wrote: I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it.

He probably wouldn't, but at least the Mets would get the draft pick.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, Knight was a full three years older in '86 than Murph is now so they shouldn't be treated as equal situations and the rules governing things are different now as well. On the flip side Ray also wasn't going to be able to command a multi-year contract they way Muffy will. I think most if not all of us would keep Murph on a one or two year deal. Knight was offered a one year deal but insisted on two (although he's since denied that) which is what caused his exit. And although it became popular to point to his absence as a reason for never repeating I never bought it, especially as how Knight went on to have two very mediocre seasons for some very bad teams and then was out of the game.

As far as Murph goes -- keeping in mind that this is from someone who's been predicting -- not hoping for, but predicting -- his departure from Queens for about two years now, I'd be quite surprised to see him back. There'll be some push back on this especially given how this October has gone so far but, like Cespedes's August, the front office can't use the very short term on which to base decisions about the long term.
Kind of funny though how the QO seems like a right move now when I know it was being dismissed out of hand both in many places as well as this forum.

[Gwreck]

Frayed Knot wrote: Kind of funny though how the QO seems like a right move now when I know it was being dismissed out of hand both in many places as well as this forum.

Although, prior to this postseason performance, there was a much higher chance of Murphy accepting the QO.

[metsmarathon]

d'Kong76 wrote: I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it.

i think that murphy gets a substantially lesser deal with a compensation pick attached to him than he would otherwise, and that's why he might accept the QO.

[Centerfield]

I wonder if these short term performances by Murphy/Cespedes will have a significant impact on the types of deals they receive. You'd think that with GM's being more and more careful, that this kind of thing would carry less weight. But maybe not. You only need one sucker who believes in the Clutch Fairy.

It will hurt but you let Murphy and Bartolo go. Go all in on Cespedes. He is the only one who can play center and allows you to play Conforto in LF and platoon Granderson/Cuddyer in RF.

Give him 5-6 years. Go for it for the next 4 years. Rebuild after that.