Does Travis D'Arnaud Suck?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Discuss.

[Centerfield]

He sucks now. Hopefully he won't later.

Nice throw last night.

[MFS62]

I voted no based on his track record of hitting in the minors.
Because of his injuries earlier this year, I don't think he has gotten into his real hitting rhythm yet.

Later

[Edgy MD]

d'Know yet. (And that's the last you'll ever see of me using the "d'" thing.)

But catching prospects do tend to come along a little slower than most, so folks should be prepared for him not necessarily being awesome next year either. Taking on a big league starter's workload is going to be hard, especially considering the time he's lost to injury.

He's not a big buck like Buck, either.

I hope what we're seeing is the vagaries of the comeback trail, and what we see next spring will be more meaningful.

Unless that sucks too, then I hope it's meaningless.

I'm actually growing more certain that any failings he has displayed thus far can be traced to the inverted P on the back of his uniform. What a sad sartorial surrender to lack of imagination and forethought that is .

[metirish]

I voted YES.....honestly I haven't watched the Mets since before I left to Ireland, tuned in last night and was shocked to see what a slump he is on....

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

We did lose R.A. Dickey for him, so he'd better not suck.

[Edgy MD]

A lot of buzz that Syndergaard is now to be considered the real centerpiece in that trade. I hope that speaks more of the ascendancy of Syndy rather than the downgrading of d'Arnie.

Hopefully, they're both successful enough to make such a discussion FUN!

[G-Fafif]

Grote, Stearns and Hundley were all offensively inept in their earliest auditions. The poll does not give the easy "too early to say" way out, but it is.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That was the genius of this poll. I'm in the "yes" camp now but surely things could change. Too often he looks like a rookie who missed most of the year with an injury.

[Edgy MD]

Grote, Stearns and Hundley were all offensively inept in their earliest auditions.

Exactly what I'm saying.

The problem is that at least two of those guys didn't exactly turn it around quickly. And Gibbons came up at 21 and never found his groove at all.

[batmagadanleadoff]

A few weeks into his debut, Willie Mays sucked moose balls, too. I took the easy way out.

[Guest themetfairy]

G-Fafif wrote: Grote, Stearns and Hundley were all offensively inept in their earliest auditions. The poll does not give the easy "too early to say" way out, but it is.

I lieu of that option, I vote no.

[Ceetar]

What grown men do in the privacy of their own homes is of no concern to me.

[Fman99]

I want to know if his wife sucks.

[Theoldmole]

No need to assume yes.

[Lefty Specialist]

This poll is about a year early.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Are you kidding? We had a "Does Brandon Nimmo Suck?" thread in 2004, when he was eleven years old!

[Zvon]

Very early to be trying to pass judgement but if forced I will say he don't suck.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Is Ed Kranepool over the hill?

[Theoldmole]

Late in his career, I brought a banner to Shea saying "Kranepool will never be over the hill."

[Vic Sage]

Edgy MD wrote: Grote, Stearns and Hundley were all offensively inept in their earliest auditions. Exactly what I'm saying. The problem is that at least two of those guys didn't exactly turn it around quickly. And Gibbons came up at 21 and never found his groove at all.

Look, I love Grote as much as the next guy (more than some, perhaps), but I'd like to know exactly when in his career he ceased being offensively inept. He was a .250 hitter with no power, speed, or walks. And that was in a good year. His one offensive talent was to hit into DPs. He hit mostly at the bottom of an offensively challenged lineup. If he weren't one of the best fielding and throwing catchers in the history of the game, he wouldn't have kept a starting job. But he was, so he did. And good for him. But lets not hope he's the measuring stick for d'Anaud's upside as a hitter. A shudder just ran through my body as i typed those words.

[Edgy MD]

I think the correct answer is 1968.

He was never a good hitter, but his 1967 was one for the ages. Afterwards, he was at least steadily bad --- occasionally maybe even approaching average by of-the-day catcher standards --- instead of mercurially dreadful. It really says something that they stuck with him beyond 1967.

[Vic Sage]

Grote was bad in `66, too. And what it says about him that the Mets stuck with him after TWO terrible years is that he could catch like a muthafucka. Yes, he had a "career year" in `68 (by which i mean he hit .280 instead of .250), but he still offered virtually no run production for the team, with no power or speed, and no R or RBI. Whether that was in fact average production for a catcher in his day i don't know. And maybe it's a soupcon above "offensively inept", but it ended up being his high-water mark for his career, and he was rarely even adequate offensively thereafter. So i don't think you can group him with Hundley or even Stearns in terms of Met catchers who turned around slow starting careers to eventually became useful offensive players.

[Edgy MD]

No, it's simply grouping them into a set of catchers who got better after starting poorly, albeit getting better in different skill areas and to different degrees.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vic Sage wrote: Yes, he had a "career year" in `68 (by which i mean he hit .280 instead of .250)

I'm not sticking up for Grote's bat but .280 in 1968, playing half your games in a park that was then murder on batting average is probably like hitting .310 -.320 normally. Just sayin'

[Edgy MD]

Grote WAR by year.

1963 -0.1
1964 -0.8
1966 0.7
1967 -0.3
1968 2.8
1969 2.5
1970 0.7
1971 1.9
1972 1.0
1973 0.4
1974 1.2
1975 3.2
1976 1.6

So it wasn't about hitting well, so much as hitting well enough to keep your glove in the game and not completely offset all its value with your bat.

Dude hit sixth frequently enough. SIXTH!! How much must writing "6. Grote, c" onto the scorecard have contributed to Gil Hodges early demise?

[Frayed Knot]

The defensive portion of WAR is erratic for all positions but particularly hard to figure for catchers. Not sure I'd trust it too much.

And, yes, the era and park have to be considered. Grote had OPS+ figures over 100 in three of the ten mostly full-time seasons that made up his NYM years:
1968 = 113
1975 = 108
1976 = 110
and came in at 97 in 1971

Still more bad than good, but those numbers compare him to ALL position players, not just to other catchers who rarely hit in that era, and of course it's all before his defense is considered (however you want to measure or not measure it).

[smg58]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That was the genius of this poll. I'm in the "yes" camp now but surely things could change. Too often he looks like a rookie who missed most of the year with an injury.

But that's precisely why I think saying he sucks would be unfair.

[ashie62]

Too early to tell..

At this point I only question his durability..

I now picture the trade providing us us Syndegaard to fill in for Wheeler in 2014 and Wheeler for Harvey...