2013 HOF In Balloting Thread

[Ceetar]

Trachsel was 0-1 with a 14.54 ERA across two starts in the postseason.

[Edgy MD]

Yes, I'm imagining an alternative scenario, where Curt Schilling's post-season record becomes adhered to Steve Trachsel's pedestrian regular season record. I'd vote for that guy.

[MFS62]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: I was voting for Schilling before it was cool.

Bloody-well.

Later

[metsmarathon]

schilling is sneaky good. you don't necessarily think of him as a hall of famer right off hte bat, but that's because, though he was around for a while to start his career, he took a bit to get off hte ground, even serving as a closer for a bit there.

the dude got hisself included in some suspect trades there too. in fact, i don't think there's a single schilling trade where the team giving him up made out even close to okay in it.

my ballot goes as follows, with some added support from a thing i'll call JAWS+, or hte ratio between a given player's jaws score (average of his career war and his war7, or top 7 war years) and the average jaws score for the hall of famers at that player's primary position

226 bonds
171 clemens (boo)
120 bagwell
118 piazza
106 raines
106 trammell
106 schlling
102 walker
100 palmiero
99 edgar martinez

kenn lofton sits at a tantalizing 98 (he was a lot better than most people ever realized, wasn't he?), and since i've run out of slots in my imaginary ballot, i don't have to wrestle with that problem.

over on the veteran's ballot, i have:

105 dahlen

94 ferrell had a very impressive peak (27th best among pitchers; only four other pitchers have a higher war7 and are not in the hall) and 94 mullane, about whom the following is written on baseballlibrary.com: "Mullane was a multi-talented marvel, baseball's first ambidextrous pitcher. He played without a glove, facing the batter with both hands on the ball before throwing it with either one." oh, he also played 7 other positions, all but catcher, and was a very early proponent of player rights.

both are deserving, but i give the edge to mullane. how could you keep a guy out who would throw the ball with either hand, and wouldl ikely have racked up 300 wins had he not been banned for a year for bucking the reserve clause?

[Edgy MD]

Lofton had a great first half of his career. He's got the same dimmed bulb effect that Raines and Griffey had --- our last eight years or so of memories were of a guy that was utterly human.

Got to count post-season numbers into there somehow, though, right?

[metsmarathon]

probably, but accounting for postseason numbers isn't stupid-easy, and i'm all about stupid.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

1. 3,000+ strikeouts and fewer than 750 walks
2. Roger Clemens-like, without being Clemens.
3. Utterly disowned Roger Clemens. (I hope he hasn't gone back on that.)
4. 300 strikeouts twice.
5. His middle name is "Montague."
6. Raised millions for the fight against ALS.
7. Looked like a fat little short-order cook next to Randy Johnson on all those magazine covers they shared back in 2001.
8. Was a big part of the playoff win that utterly exploded the feeling of entitlement an entire generation of Yankee fans was comfortable with.
9. A huge part, actually. Hurt them badly twice, in fact.
10. 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in the post-season, with 120 strikeouts in 133.1 innings, against only 25 walks. With a post-season record like that, I'd vote Steve Trachsel into the Hall of Fame.

Cool things about Curt Schilling:

All this and he's the man who said "When you use words like 'mystique' and 'aura,' those are names of night club dancers. Those are not things we concern ourselves with on a ballfield," at the height of the Yankees feeling of entitlement and infallibility.

And don't forget (already enshrined in the Hall):

[Valadius]

Schilling had some INSANE BB/9 numbers, especially while he was tag-teaming with Randy Johnson in Arizona.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Why would you think Schilling would go in as a Phillie? Championships with Arizona and Boston. I bet the Hall would love to get a Diamondback cap in there to have more teams represented.

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Why would you think Schilling would go in as a Phillie? Championships with Arizona and Boston. I bet the Hall would love to get a Diamondback cap in there to have more teams represented.

I think the overwhelming time would trump it.

[nymr83]

Schilling should go in with a crossed-out yankee hat! I hope voters have gotten smarter about the (non) value of W's and he doesn't wait as long as Blyleven did.

[Vic Sage]

Edgy convinced me about Schilling last year, but i'd forgotten. I'll revise my ballot accordingly.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Same. Forgot about that.

Although:

Edgy MD wrote: 2) Roger Clemens-like, without being Clemens.

One could credibly argue that, drugs aside, he's almost more Clemens than Clemens.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I overlooked Schilling too but he deserves a vote.

[Valadius]

Vets' Committee has voted in MFYs owner Jacob Ruppert, umpire Hank O'Day, and 19th-century barehanded catcher Deacon White.

[Edgy MD]

Deacon White looks like a guy who made a killing in dry goods.

[MFS62]

Valadius wrote: Vets' Committee has voted in MFYs owner Jacob Ruppert, umpire Hank O'Day, and 19th-century barehanded catcher Deacon White.

They were selected by the "pre-integration" part of the veteran's committee.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ruppert-oday-white-elected-baseball-175350379--mlb.html

Never knew there was such a thing. What year was that group formed?

Later

[Edgy MD]

Hall of famer Deacon White wants to know if you want more starch for your shirt.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Edgy MD wrote: Hall of famer Deacon White wants to know if you want more starch for your shirt.

Look at this fucking hipster.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm guessing that Deacon White is dead at the present time?

[metsmarathon]

he looks like a fun guy to be around.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

MFS62 wrote: [They were selected by the "pre-integration" part of the veteran's committee. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ruppert-oday-white-elected-baseball-175350379--mlb.html

I guess they need to make sure there's enough white guys in the HOF.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm guessing that Deacon White is dead at the present time?

Looks like he was dead at the time those pictures were taken.

Any relation to Deacon Blues?

2A0wGO3c2T8

[seawolf17]

Someone tell him that Movember is over.

[stevejrogers]

MFS62 wrote: Vets' Committee has voted in MFYs owner Jacob Ruppert, umpire Hank O'Day, and 19th-century barehanded catcher Deacon White. They were selected by the "pre-integration" part of the veteran's committee. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ruppert-oday-white-elected-baseball-175350379--mlb.html Never knew there was such a thing. What year was that group formed? Later

The Veterans Commitee has been tasked with different groupings of canididates to vote for each winter now. This one, the Modern Era was last year, and there is one for modern non-playing personel as well.

I guess its a nicer way of saying "19th Century" or something.

[Vic Sage]

I guess its a nicer way of saying "19th Century" or something

Except that the "pre-integration" era went halfway through the 20th century too. And what kind of Orwellian bullshit word is that anyway? It's not the "pre-integration" era; it's the era of "segregation". Stop putting smiley faces on our ugly past.

[MFS62]

Vic Sage wrote: I guess its a nicer way of saying "19th Century" or something Except that the "pre-integration" era went halfway through the 20th century too. And what kind of Orwellian bullshit word is that anyway? It's not the "pre-integration" era; it's the era of "segregation". Stop putting smiley faces on our ugly past.

Bingo.
Also-
While Rupert sold the Yankees long before baseball was (re)integrated, they were the next to last team to integrate. His selection by that sub-committee reminded me of that fact.

Later

[Edgy MD]

That's a silly angle to play if it were true, and it's not.

[Edgy MD]

Maybe not the argument you want to hear, or perhaps yield to, but a heck of a thrust coming from Dale Murphy's family.

http://deadspin.com/5969376/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Edgy MD]

Davidoff publishes his ballot and gives Mike Piazza a cold clinical no.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/baseballinsider/my_hall_of_fame_ballot_rC1PsqLR9XhGn3vaUJMYNL#axzz2FWjS3xyI

Can't argue too much with him, as he came armed with data. I'll just say that our searches for a final bottom-line number on a player's value hasn't necessarily given us a number that adequately accounts for the greater value in offense when it comes from a catcher. These guys have a harder time maintaining peak productivity because they play a position that allows other guys to be productive. That's something.