Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

[Benjamin Grimm]

So, basically he's Jason Bay?

[TransMonk]

Underwhelming based on expectations, ex-Pirate, same Mets number...

[Met Hunter]

Ollie P. makes it back as a member of the M's.

[Edgy MD]

I want to stand and clap. Misty tear in my eye. Go, OP.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Bobby Ojeda is going to be on NPR's Fresh Air this afternoon.

Apparently he wrote a book about how much his arm hurts? (At least, that's what it sounded like from the on-air promo.)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

He wrote a lengthy article in the NY Times magazine about his career, during which his arm hurt often. It was pretty eye-opening and none too glamorous.

[metirish]

Yeah, it was an excellent read

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/sports/baseball/the-former-met-bob-ojeda-relives-both-glory-and-pain.html?pagewanted=all

[Vic Sage]

I had conflated in my memory the accident that cut off the tips of his fingers with the boating accident; i was surprised to read and be reminded that they were in fact separate incidents.

Memory is such an odd creature, squirming in the shadowy recesses of your mind.

[MFS62]

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports:

Scott Kazmir is expected to sign with the independent Sugarland Skeeters later this week, Kazmir, a former prized arm, has just about hit rock bottom. The 28-year-old failed to garner so much as a minor league contract over the winter, forcing him to move back to his native Texas and resume his career in obscurity. The former Mets farmhand and Rays stalwart has a 5.54 ERA over 55 major league starts dating back to the 2009 season.

If you want to see him play, that team is in the same league (Atlantic) as the Bridgeport Bluefish and the LI Ducks.

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

That Victor Zambrano trade didn't turn out to be nearly as horrible as it first seemed. (Even in retrospect, though, it was ill-advised.)

[Met Hunter]

I've always felt the Kazmir trade was more about what we could have gotten.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yup, and just the whole hubris of it. The Mets really misread where they were and what they needed to compete. It was just a dumb day all around.

[stevejrogers]

It also provided one of the most funniest examples of a media member pulling a hamstring as he backpedled off of his original stance.

A sports show host as the deal was going down was all gun ho about both deals the Friday that they were going down with the attitude of "I don't know Kazmir, I don't know Peterson, I do know Benson and I do know Zambrano [yes he was talking about Victor, not Carlos], so these were smart deals."

Mets get swept by the Braves that weekend, including Kris Benson's Met debut, opinion across the board was pretty much that the Mets had completely mis-read their chances and should have gotten more for Kazmir if they were going to trade him, and he opens his Monday show declaring the season over and the Mets should start looking to trade off veterans in waiver wire deals.

[Ceetar]

and apparently Zambrano was actually hurt the entire time right?

In the end Peterson was right about Kazmir's long term viability, but he did get some good years in and it would've been nice to have him in '06-'08.

It's funny, because that was the first year the Mets had a stats guy, so you'd think they wouldn't have been as high on Zambrano who was a low-K high-BB guy. They seemed to like the win % on a bad team instead. He was an innings type guy, but those aren't the guys that put you over the top in pennant races.

[Guest themetfairy]

Ceetar wrote: and apparently Zambrano was actually hurt the entire time right?

IIRC, Jim Duquette relied on Tampa's medical assessment rather than having him checked out independently.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: In the end Peterson was right about Kazmir's long term viability, but he did get some good years in and it would've been nice to have him in '06-'08.

Peterson never said a word - at least not that has become public knowledge - about Kazmir and his long term viability.
The only way Peterson was ever tied to that deal (despite repeated attempts by Joe Badabingo to act as if Rick himself was solely responsible) was to say that he didn't think someone with that slim a minor league track record was nearly ready to contribute at that point in the majors. Met mgmt, mainly the "wise old men" that the Wilpons installed to watch over Duquette's shoulder, wanted someone who could contribute NOW!!! hence the trades. Peterson never predicted future injuries for Kaz and claimed to have only seen him throw once or twice since he was mainly assigned to the minor league camps during ST.
Besides, we all know it was Al Leiter who ordered the deal since he was pissed at Kazmir for changing radio stations in the clubhouse.

It's funny, because that was the first year the Mets had a stats guy, so you'd think they wouldn't have been as high on Zambrano who was a low-K high-BB guy. They seemed to like the win % on a bad team instead. He was an innings type guy, but those aren't the guys that put you over the top in pennant races.

Once of the 'Wise Ol Men' (Livesay maybe) was reportedly in love with Zambrano from way back and apparently never altered his opinion despite a mediocre at best track record in the majors.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I was terrified that the Mets had jumped the shark (I mean, they already had but we'd know soon how badly) but I desperately tried making sense of those deals at the time.

For a short while my fantasy - not all that farfetched - was that Zambrano was a kind of 1973 Nolan Ryan, a young veteran with rocky track record, poised to unleash asskickings everywhere and make people's jaws drop.

Despite better pedigree Benson I was never all that excited about but he at least came at the smaller cost of a bad-fielding third baseman who'd just lost his job forever.

[metirish]

I have a vague memory of Peterson saying that Kazmir's mechanics were an elbow injury waiting to happen..........this may have been said a few years later though.

I have always felt bad for Peterson in that whole saga, I thought he was a good pitching coach and seemed like a good guy.....

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: I have a vague memory of Peterson saying that Kazmir's mechanics were an elbow injury waiting to happen..........this may have been said a few years later though. I have always felt bad for Peterson in that whole saga, I thought he was a good pitching coach and seemed like a good guy.....

yeah, that's the thing I was remembering, somewhere. It wouldn't be out of line with Peterson to think/say that privately though either, being a guy that was all about studying mechanics and risky deliveries.

I was ready for Peterson to go, but I think we underappreciated him, particularly (And this could certainly be unrelated too) the way he seemed to get the most out of John Maine and Oliver Perez. I suspect mechanics had stuff to do with that too. I wonder if anyone's asked Peterson about Maine since, although it's not like he's studying Maine day in and day out to truly comment.

[Edgy MD]

Peterson did more than see Kazmir. He took him, among others, down to James Andrews health center to undergo one of those telemetric evaluations. He certainly had the biomechanical data on the guy. What he did with it, and how much it scared the Mets is certainly open to debate.

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: I have a vague memory of Peterson saying that Kazmir's mechanics were an elbow injury waiting to happen..........this may have been said a few years later though.

I think it was commonly said that Peterson said that, but that's different from him actually saying that.

And, yes, Kazmir was part of a whole contingent of NYM pitchers who were tested in Andrews bio-mechanics lab or whatever it was called. I recall Peterson saying (well after the fact) that no red flags were raised at that time and that he rarely if ever saw Kaz pitch after that. Of course, if red flags were raised it wouldn't be the sort of thing a team would announce.

And, again, Peterson was the major league pitching coach at the time while Kazmir was mostly in A-ball. Peterson's main complaint, or suggestion if you will, was that very few pitchers had succeeded in the majors without at least 500 minor league innings and certainly not those from out of high school. Kazmir had around 200 minor league innings under his belt and just 4 starts above A-ball at the time of the trade.

Whether his promotion by Tampa at age 20 and after just an additional 25 or so innings of minor league ball contributed to him not reaching his hoped-for potential and, in effect, being done as a useful pitcher by the age of 25 is conjecture, although I think most would agree that the track he was put on pretty neatly fits the description of being rushed unnecessarily. The Rays certainly weren't going anywhere in a hurry in 2004.

[duan]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Despite better pedigree Benson I was never all that excited about but he at least came at the smaller cost of a bad-fielding third baseman who'd just lost his job forever.

lets not forget that he did technically cost Jose Bautista.

[Edgy MD]

Tobi Stoner, after falling to 1-8 with the Bridgeport Bluefish, finds himself cut loose like a deuce from the Atlantic League.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

[G-Fafif]

Deja June all over again: Just like 13 years ago this month, Bob Apodaca takes the fall, this time for the Rockies' woes.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Andy McCullough reporting that Chris "Suitcase" Schwinden, waived by the Indians to make room for Vinny Rottino, has been claimed by the Yankees.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Swan Swan H wrote: Andy McCullough reporting that Chris "Suitcase" Schwinden, waived by the Indians to make room for Vinny Rottino, has been claimed by the Yankees.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Edgy MD]

Wow!

Sorry, John Maine.

[seawolf17]

Maine, Schwinden, Figueroa, Igarashi. LOLOLOLOLOL indeed.

[Frayed Knot]

Igarashi was one of those just re-called to fill holes left by the double-LHP-DL-ing.
Wonder if he'll get a start?

[Met Hunter]

A little 2000 Mets reunion feel this weekend. Ventura and Super Joe in with the ChiSox. Rickey at Old Timers Day. Out east, the LI Ducks bring Armando back in and are reportedly signing old friend Timo Perez.