Re-Sign Reyes NOW!!!!

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Dierkes does some calls and reporting, as well as some half-decent market/roster analysis. Let's put it this way: if ESPN's other-peoples'-shoulders-standing reporters count as reputable press, so does Dierkes; at least he credits the original source without fail. Well, as much as I'm willing to blast the four-letter network and their penchant for breaking news that wasn't remotely their doing, Kurkjian, Starks, Olney, etc., are full-time and real reporters so it's not quite the same thing. Nothing wrong with what MLB-Rumors (or similar sites) does, it's just that the question about whether or not they're reliable depends on whose actual reporting they're quoting.

they're reliably reporting the _rumors_.

[Edgy MD]

Mets get butt for compensation if Reyes signs with Miami.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Rubin is emphasizing the third-round pick, but the sandwich pick between the first and second rounds isn't quite nothing, even if it is created "out of thin air."

[Edgy MD]

Truly true, and the third-round pick is nothing also. Just a disappointing turn of events, and goofy, since Heath Bell is worth more.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I think I just threw up a little more in my mouth.

[Frayed Knot]

- So under the new system a team losing a FA will gain picks but the signing team doesn't lose any? I hadn't realized that.

- Kind of strange then that they seem to be employing a sot of hybrid of the old and new compensation systems rather than just simply waiting for next year to completely change over to the new. Under the totally new system it's probable that Heath Bell wouldn't generate any compensation because the Pads were almost certain to not offer him enough in arbitration (top 125 contracts in the league) to be rewarded with picks.

- That the old system favored relievers when determining ranks within FA types (often to a ridiculous degree) was one of the main reasons to change things up. Those rankings also cover a two-year period which favors Reyes less than just looking at 2011 would.

- The way Rubin kept using the "out of thin air" phrase made it seem like he thinks there's some sort of magic trick going on here.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: - So under the new system a team losing a FA will gain picks but the signing team doesn't lose any? I hadn't realized that.

The Marlins wouldn't, but only because top-ten picks are protected. Hence, the Mets would get the third-rounder, because Heath Bell's a more "valuable" RP than Reyes is a middle-infielder, as per those wacky Elias rankings (which no doubt take body mass and bad-cholesterol-level into account).

[Frayed Knot]

OK, here's what's unclear to me:

Rubin - A change for this offseason as part of the new basic agreement made Heath Bell as well as Michael Cuddyer, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Madson, Francisco Rodriguez and Josh Willingham a different kind of Type A free agent.
* Different type? As in, what, a better kind of Type A (Type A+ ?), a worse kind (Type A- ?)
* Will these shadings within shadings continue or is this just a one-year transition kind of category?



back to Rubin - The teams that lose those players as free agents, assuming arbitration had been offered, will get basically the same type of compensation they would under the old system. But the pick will not come from the signing team.
* So will picks come from the signing team for different kinds of FAs?
* And, if so, what will distinguish those mentioned above from FAs who do require direct picks from the signing team?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

THAT's the "thin-air" thing. The Pods et. al. would get a pick slotted in just before the signing team's first- (or second-, or-- if you have the most-desirable MI on the free-agent market in about 7-8 years-- third-) round pick; the signing team holds on to that pick, though.

(So, wait... the Marlins, then, don't even lose the second-rounder that we don't get? Good God-- they already have no state income tax and year-round sun; do Floridians need more freebies?)

[dgwphotography]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Good God-- they already have no state income tax and year-round sun; do Floridians need more freebies?)

They even took Disney World from us..

[Guest themetfairy]

dgwphotography wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Good God-- they already have no state income tax and year-round sun; do Floridians need more freebies?) They even took Disney World from us..

?

[MFS62]

themetfairy wrote: dgwphotography wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Good God-- they already have no state income tax and year-round sun; do Floridians need more freebies?) They even took Disney World from us.. ?

A lot of the attractions at EPCOT were first shown at the New York World's Fair in 1964 (e.g.- Pepsi "Its a Small World", and the GE ride).

Later

[Edgy MD]

A lot of talk churning about the Tigers being on the stalk for Reyes. I clicked back through several articles and they all spring from this one tweet.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Press: Is it important for the Mets to retain Jose Reyes?

Fred Wilpon: What kind of a question is that? (then walks away)

The Victimization of Straight-Shooting Mets G.M. Sandy Alderson

By Howard Megdal

10:46 am Dec. 2, 2011

Pity Sandy Alderson, general manager of the New York Mets. Hired in October 2010, he entered a personnel minefield laid for him by his predecessor, Omar Minaya, which combined useless players and overpaid ones with booby-trap contracts. That much, Alderson knew. Then he found out that as a result of Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme, the Mets ownership group was running out of money, and fast. The team's payroll for players, which was $146 million in 2011, would have to come way down, likely to less than $100 million in 2012. Alderson confirmed Thursday what has long been obvious to anyone paying close attention to the Mets, which is that the new austerity isn't a function of any new "Moneyball"-type philosophy of quality-through-thrift. The payroll is being reduced because the owners said it had to be. In fact, it is Fred Wilpon, the Mets' C.E.O. and president, who has been responsible for Alderson's embarrassing, repeated need to revise his 2012 payroll estimates�$130-150 million in February, $120 million in late May, $110-120 million in early September, and currently, under $100 million. �Nice to know someone's keeping track of what I say,� Alderson replied dryly to a question about the estimates during a telephone conference call with bloggers on Thursday night. While both Fred and Jeff Wilpon have found creative ways to avoid speaking to the press about the very financial problems they trumpeted earlier this year, Sandy Alderson has remained out front, dutifully answering questions and speaking as forthrightly as he possibly can, given his position. He spent a half-hour on a conference call with the beat reporters on Thursday afternoon, providing answers ahead of Major League Baseball's winter meetings, scheduled to begin next Monday in Dallas. That's par for the course. What isn't typical is the 90 minutes he spent patiently answering questions from season-ticket holders Wednesday night at Citi Field, and nor is the hour he spent with Mets bloggers Thursday evening on a conference call as well. On that call, Alderson cited �intervening events� as the cause of the dramatic in-season drop in expected payroll, even though he'd mentioned earlier in the call that revenues and expenditures generally stay pretty static in-season. He presumably wasn't just referring to the financial problems frequently attached to a drop in attendance or to the lawsuit filed against Fred Wilpon and his partners by the trustee for the Madoff victims, but also to the fact that the Mets' problems are the result of loans taken out to cover disappeared Madoff assets. Their debt problem is accute: The on-again, off-again sale to minority owners�first to hedge-funder David Einhorn, more recently to a group of smaller investors, neither one yet consummated�was for money earmarked for short-term debts and to pay down a small portion of the $430 million the Wilpon group owes against the team. "Well, there�s such a thing as called intervening events," Alderson said on the call. "When Fred Wilpon pushes back, presumably that has some impact. Let me just get to the bottom line here: I think we�ll be around a hundred million bucks, but we could be a little below that as we start that season, as I like to be starting a season, so that there is some money in reserve to do the things you like to do during the season, whether that�s at the major league level or with respect to things at the minor league level." Presumably these intervening events took Alderson by surprise. He would have had nothing to gain by saying in February that he expected 2012 payroll to run between $130 and $150 million if he knew it wasn't going to be the case. He has a reputation, built over decades, for candor and honesty. And anyway, he would have been setting expectations impossibly, stupidly high by suggesting he'd have more money to play with than he actually had. So Alderson has been trapped, not just by the ownership team's financial problems but their unwillingness to acknowledge publicly or, apparently, privately, that those problems are going to hobble the team's ambitions. No matter how intently Alderson wishes to be accessible, if the answer to questions is unanswerable without badmouthing ownership, and Fred Wilpon won't talk, Alderson is left to dissemble about things that are hard to defend. Take the free-agency of Jose Reyes, the Mets' star shortstop who is now a free agent. Sandy Alderson can't say, Our owners aren't likely to pay Jose Reyes huge money�they need to save every dollar they can right now just to survive. So instead, Alderson has to justify the team's losing posture as it half-heartedly seeks to keep Reyes in New York. Essentially, the team has said that it won't bid on Reyes until other teams have bid for him, and that they also won't get into a bidding war once those others teams join the fray. So Fred Wilpon hasn't provided Alderson with any cover at all. What the Mets owners are doing is going through the motions�mumbling about hypothetical bids for Reyes rather than making real ones�so they won't be accused by fans of simply letting a key player leave New York because of cash-flow issues. (The Mets' hypothetical bid, incidentally, is already less than what Reyes has reportedly been offered, for real, elsewhere.) When asked by reporters at the owners meeting last month if retaining Reyes, an enormously popular figure and the team's best player, was important, Wilpon replied, �What kind of question is that?� and walked away. It is hard to imagine that didn't eat at Alderson, who has continued to say publicly that the Mets really do want to keep Reyes, while in the next breath having to talk about the payroll considerations that make keeping Reyes unlikely. All his owner had to do was say: We sure hope so, but we need to see how things play out. The great shame here is that Sandy Alderson is precisely the general manager the Mets have needed for the twenty years since Frank Cashen retired in 1991. And as recently as December 10, 2008, the Wilpon ownership group could have provided Alderson with more than enough cash to turn the New York Mets into a National League powerhouse. But a day later, Bernie Madoff was arrested, and now it looks like Sandy Alderson will be as wasted on the Mets as Jose Reyes was.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2011/12/4408000/victimization-straight-shooting-mets-gm-sandy-alderson

[Edgy MD]

Medgal has long since fallen into his agenda.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Agenda or not, I agree with Megdal that the Mets future looks rather bleak. I believe Sandy Alderson is a knowledgeable and capable GM that is not likely to be given the resources required to turn the Mets into contenders.

To that end, I will be surprised if Reyes is a Met next season.

[Edgy MD]

Well, maybe, but it doesn't take a journalist to tell us the Mets are cash-poor.

Alderson confirmed Thursday what has long been obvious to anyone paying close attention to the Mets, which is that the new austerity isn't a function of any new "Moneyball"-type philosophy of quality-through-thrift. The payroll is being reduced because the owners said it had to be.

As he says, anyone paying close attention knows this. (I'd take out the "close.) Beyond that, it's about hammering and driving home an agenda.

[metirish]

Jon Heyman
#marlins are at or over $100M, according to sources. Clear favorite for reyes now. Mets plan was to offer $75-80M,


SI_JonHeyman
#mets were willing to bid $75-80M for reyes with incentives that could get him to $90-100M.. Marlins 2 aggressive

[Edgy MD]

Listing the years would help there.

[smg58]

The latest rumored offer from the Marlins is six years and $111M. If true, I'd be out lawsuit or not. I'd look at pitchers instead.

[Centerfield]

I don't see what the lawsuit has to do with Reyes. If you believe the reports, the Mets are strapped short term, but long-term they're fine.

The issue with Reyes has never been next year or two years from now. It's years 5, 6 and 7, at which time the lawsuit will be ancient history.

[TransMonk]

Centerfield wrote: The issue with Reyes has never been next year or two years from now. It's years 5, 6 and 7, at which time the lawsuit will be ancient history.

As will most of Jose's base stealing and defensive abilities.

[metirish]

Nearly done?

jon Heyman
those who claimed the #marlins were engaging in a publicity stunt can now take it back. reyes is about to become a fish.

#marlins and reyes working hard. appear to be trying to fiinsh it up. competition (mets, brewers) are left in dust already.

[Gwreck]

MLB Network is referencing Ken Rosenthal that Reyes signed a 6 year deal with Miami.

[metirish]

Gwreck wrote: MLB Network is referencing Ken Rosenthal that Reyes signed a 6 year deal with Miami.

it was coming we all knew it but I'm gutted.

[Gwreck]

They have now changed their story to reflect that the Marlins and Reyes are "nearing" an agreement. Whatever.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Memories of Jose Reyes...

[bmfc1]

I think I'm gonna cry.

[Fman99]

[Lefty Specialist]

On the plus side, plenty of good seats available at Citi next year.