Redeveloping Willets Point

[Vic Sage]

there is a name for a government that uses its power on behalf of private commercial interests at the expense of individuals. It used to be called fascism. Now, it includes our own bailout nation. National socialism for the rich, laissez-faire for everybody else.

[Willets Point]

This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square.

By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Willets Point wrote: This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square. By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian.

Maybe. But I bet they're speaking Chinese.

[metsmarathon]

Willets Point wrote: This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square. By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian.

there's hot chicks with running strollers and cute little babies. bring on the future! bring! it! on!



also the little boy walking with his parents in that same frame appears to have a hispanic father. though maybe he's just got a good tan. and the picture above it has a young black teenager with a white shirt and stylishly askew cap looking across the street towards young plaid-shirted opie. i think they're friends.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Damn yuppies have cornered the market and I can never get seats for Aurora Borealis Night anymore.

[Guest Number 6]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market.

I predict interest will be titillated, but resistance will ultimately be flaccid.

(Did I see what you did there? I'm hoping yes.)

[Willets Point]

seawolf17 wrote: I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer.

I could stand to lose a few pounds. And I need a haircut.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Number 6 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market. I predict interest will be titillated, but resistance will ultimately be flaccid. (Did I see what you did there? I'm hoping yes.)

Your wishes for me are really confusing.

[HahnSolo]

It ain't my forum, but isn't this veering well into non-baseball forum territory?

ON Edit: I'd like to apologize for sounding douchey.

[batmagadanleadoff]

In the future, there will be flying cars.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I think it's a neat idea. But I think it's difficult to create Wrigleyville. It kind of has to happen on its own. Housing would keep people in the area year-round instead of just one game days.

There has been minimal development of shops and things around Comerica in Detroit -- though it is Detroit. Houston, Cleveland and Pittsburgh seemed to have some nice things going on. Denver was still too new when I was there. Cincy has some things, but you have to walk a bit.

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think it's a neat idea. But I think it's difficult to create Wrigleyville. It kind of has to happen on its own. Housing would keep people in the area year-round instead of just one game days. There has been minimal development of shops and things around Comerica in Detroit -- though it is Detroit. Houston, Cleveland and Pittsburgh seemed to have some nice things going on. Denver was still too new when I was there. Cincy has some things, but you have to walk a bit.

You think we'd fail to create our own Wrigleyville?

Pittsburgh, I was there in '06. at the time, was some decent stuff outside. No idea what it looks like when the place isn't completely packed. (you know, a normal game)

San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park.

Denver doesn't have much. There's a really awesome brewery right there, but otherwise not really much.

Might as well keep going. St. Louis has some stuff going on, but it's downtown and except for a couple of restaurants, a lot of it closes down with the 9-5 workday.

Oakland's horrible. get out of there ASAP! (they're moving anyway)

SF was okay, but not really much down there either.

Nothing by the Dodgers.

Anaheim overlooks the freeway and it's pretty much residential around there.

Miami is just off the highway. nothing. They're moving as well.

Balitmore is in the harbor area. I found the surrounding area pretty nice, but it's not ballpark related. It just happens to be where everythings going on in general. This oculd be because there is nothing going on with the Orioles though.

Philly's much like Citi. In a big parking lot. also with the other teams, and it's a disaster to get out of if they overlap. I remember walking to Chickie and pete's between double headers, but it wasn't acxross the street or anything.

[soupcan]

Ceetar wrote: San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park.

San Diego's got it knocked. Hotels, restaurants, clubs, condos - all right around the park. Great park in what's become a great area in a great city. It's what the Mets hope will happen at Citi,

[Ceetar]

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park. San Diego's got it knocked. Hotels, restaurants, clubs, condos - all right around the park. Great park in what's become a great area in a great city. It's what the Mets hope will happen at Citi,

Yeah, it's definitely nice. I've been there twice and actually haven't seen a game unfortunately. just walekd around the park and tour.

the clubs and restaurants and what not are a block a way right, or two?

[soupcan]

Yeah, they're right around there.

The Gaslamp district was always nice but in the last 5-6 years or so the area has just boomed and it's hopping most of the time now.

[HahnSolo]

Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it.

[metirish]

soupcan wrote: Yeah, they're right around there. The Gaslamp district was always nice but in the last 5-6 years or so the area has just boomed and it's hopping most of the time now.

All done by Sandy Alderson.....

[Ceetar]

HahnSolo wrote: Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it.

I was there in Feb of 2008 (I swear, if i couldn't search gmail tosee when i talked about things, i'd enver remember when i was where) and it was nice. had a nice chat with a random stranger in the gaslight district about the Mets, and Ruben Gotay if i recall correctly. I was wearing a Mets shirt obviously, but there were a lot of mets fans there for February in San Diego. I flew out there for a random interview, so I guess i came fairly close to almost possibly movingthere and going to a lot of Padres games. I definitely enjoyed the gaslight district though, very nice.

Also, that Convention Center has some huge stairs. This company i interviewed at supposedly has a "group run" Fridays at lunch time where they just run up and down those stairs. I'm kinda glad i didn't get the job.

[Benjamin Grimm]

What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game.

And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game.

[Guest themetfairy]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game. And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game.

Something like a Homewood Suites or Embassy Suites would be nice - it makes it easier on families to be able to stay in a suite setting (especially one that includes breakfast).

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game. And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game.

perfect. make 'em a sponsor, give discounts with a ticket stub. Offer "get here" packages like the "get away" packages but marketed towards out of town fans that want to come here versus fans here that want to see the team on the road.

[stevejrogers]

HahnSolo wrote: Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it.

I was out there this past summer for ComicCon. Friggin epic, pretty much like the Super Bowl for pop culture. The Convention Center is just massive. Beats the Javits Center here in NYC, heh I guess its places like it that really got Bloomberg wanting that Jets West Side Stadium/Convention Center so badly. It is one of those type of places that could contain something like 4-5 different events at the same time as I got the impression of ComicCon that you could literally spend the entire day in just one specific section of the Center, or even the floors themselves it was that massive of a space.

Thing I love about Petco when I was out there back in July, the Padres were away in Pittsburgh playing a Wednesday afternoon game and I strolled around the exterior of the ballpark. I get to the park behind the outfield which is open year round and they invite San Diego-ians to come chill with their pets there (Petco, pets, you get the idea). Anyway, I see that on the outfield wall they were broadcasting the game from PNC! So you can chill and watch the Padres AT Petco literally all 162 games if you wanted to (as well as afford all 81 home games and all that time of course).

In terms of building a faux Wrigleyville or doing it Gaslamp style? Didn't the Gaslamp district already exist at one point, erode and get rebuilt with the help of getting things like Petco and the Convention Center there? In other words it got rebuilt rather than the WP project is basically from scratch?

And yeah, Wrigleyville, like the area around Fenway in Boston just grew organically over the decades, especially with them being the last of the "true" neighborhood ballparks (No, Death Star III in the South Bronx doesn't really count. Or it counts as much as you want to count Flushing/Corona as being a neighborhood for Citi).

And comparatively speaking, Gaslamp vs. Wrigleyville, Gaslamp had a mid-town Manhattan feel. Not Times Square-esque, but it just had that sense of upper scale establishments, you had some name brand restaurants, shops and hotels. While Wrigleyville spoke more to a Village like scene is probably a good way of describing it. It wasn't part of the mid-town area, it was off on its own little part of Chicago and while there is a McDonalds across the street from Wrigley and several of the establishments are well known tourist traps by now, it seems more of a "just bubbling under the mainstream" kind of vibe there. If I'm making much sense but that is what I got from being in Chicago.

Well, the bottom line though is that the Mets and NYC do want this to turn into a Gaslamp district setting with the name brand hotels, restaurants, etc.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one.

Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim.

[Frayed Knot]

Didn't the Gaslamp district already exist at one point, erode and get rebuilt with the help of getting things like Petco and the Convention Center there? In other words it got rebuilt rather than the WP project is basically from scratch?

Yes, that's pretty much the deal. Much like the waterfront area in Baltimore when Camden Yards was one piece of a larger urban renewal deal.
The specific spot of Petco was an aging manufacturing area which, like everywhere else, barely exist in inner-cities these days.

The thing is, both those places are in/near the center of 'downtown', something the WP area of northern Queens is never going to be no matter what you try to stick there. NYC has no equivalent spot as Manhattan doesn't have that kind of room - except for via goofy & expensive ideas where railroad yards are 'roofed' over and then a stadium built on top. The model for CitiField should be closer to a Wrigley-like residential & neighborhood feel although the criss-crossing highways that effectively cut it off from the rest of Queens are going to put a limit on just how chummy it can get.

The Javitz Center is a corrupt mess and has been since virtually day one of its existence.

[metsmarathon]

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one. Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim.

having run (circuitously) from one to the other and (less circuitously) back again, it's really not all that much of a great walk. two miles. the mile closer to disneyland has you walking past hotels and retail complexes, but not really walking through them. the mile closer to the stadium is really just a giant industrial complex, that, i guess, is starting to get more hotels and shit in there. in between is a giant overpass for I-5.

new york and san francisco are also pretty much down the street from one another. that's not a great walk either.

[Ceetar]

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one. Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim.

Definitely good for a two-part trip(in fact, that's what I did when i was there, as well as San Diego and losing one of our party in Mexico), and I do enjoy the downtown Disney area, but it's not quite "down the street" as it's not really walking distance, although there is public transportation that'll get you there.

But I think that's the best we can hope for around Citi. What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: new york and san francisco are also pretty much down the street from one another. that's not a great walk either.

Well, it's not as bad if you take a break at Chicago in the middle.

[Vic Sage]

What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs.

when would this not be true?

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs. when would this not be true?

umm...uhh...

maybe as an AA meeting location?