Teixeira's an MFY, apparently

[seawolf17]

="Edgy DC":3hea533s]This isn't about us.[/quote:3hea533s] Exactly. We didn't have a dog in this fight. I was more disappointed with Swisher going to the Bronx, because I thought he could have helped us. Get me Adam Dunn, Ollie, and Lowe, Omar.

metirish Dec 23 2008 05:12 PM

I think Hank stole $400 million from Fred.

seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 05:15 PM

Not necessarily -- this was Giambi/Mussina/Pavano money. They pulled a lot off the books this off-season, so they had money to play with.

Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:39 PM

Apparently Christmas is the season for ****kicking. I have a big jealous chubby. I wish we would sign an impact bat. It's a bad deal but they print their own cash over there anyway.

Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:40 PM

="smg58":39swv4no]I think we should all move to the Bronx. The economy appears to be really, really good over there.[/quote:39swv4no] Couldn't I just punch myself in the face and eat my own shit instead? John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 23 2008 06:02 PM F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 06:11 PM I suppose this means the Yankees will be hoisting the World Series trophy for the 27th time this coming October. Sigh. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:32 PM EDC: This isn't about us <<< Yeah, I won't even yup� it. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:45 PM I'll add that I'm against nearly decade long deals for anyone or anything. Rockin' Doc Dec 23 2008 08:09 PM A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years. I think the Mets should have Snachez hail Teixeira a cab when he comes to town for the contract announcement. metirish Dec 24 2008 04:28 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2gy0nvub]F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.[/quote:2gy0nvub] Noting to add really except a big fuck yeah. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 05:42 AM Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff? :ater Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:43 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract. metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn." Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose. DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM 8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it? DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM Stoopid arithmetic Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?) DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway. DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM ]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh. metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher. duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't. metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM Not a chance I would do that. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM ]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster. metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench! Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job? Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins). metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM Incredible . Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM The Yankees really have to shore things up at second. Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM ="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

[metirish]

I think Hank stole $400 million from Fred.

[seawolf17]

Not necessarily -- this was Giambi/Mussina/Pavano money. They pulled a lot off the books this off-season, so they had money to play with.

[Fman99]

Apparently Christmas is the season for ****kicking.

I have a big jealous chubby. I wish we would sign an impact bat. It's a bad deal but they print their own cash over there anyway.

[Fman99]

="smg58":39swv4no]I think we should all move to the Bronx. The economy appears to be really, really good over there.[/quote:39swv4no] Couldn't I just punch myself in the face and eat my own shit instead?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 23 2008 06:02 PM

F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.

Willets Point Dec 23 2008 06:11 PM

I suppose this means the Yankees will be hoisting the World Series trophy for the 27th time this coming October. Sigh.

Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:32 PM

EDC: This isn't about us <<< Yeah, I won't even yup� it.

Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:45 PM

I'll add that I'm against nearly decade long deals for anyone or anything.

Rockin' Doc Dec 23 2008 08:09 PM

A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years. I think the Mets should have Snachez hail Teixeira a cab when he comes to town for the contract announcement.

metirish Dec 24 2008 04:28 AM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2gy0nvub]F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.[/quote:2gy0nvub] Noting to add really except a big fuck yeah. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 05:42 AM Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff? :ater Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:43 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract. metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn." Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose. DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM 8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it? DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM Stoopid arithmetic Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?) DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway. DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM ]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh. metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher. duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't. metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM Not a chance I would do that. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM ]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster. metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench! Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job? Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins). metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM Incredible . Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM The Yankees really have to shore things up at second. Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM ="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.

[Willets Point]

I suppose this means the Yankees will be hoisting the World Series trophy for the 27th time this coming October. Sigh.

[Guest Kong76]

EDC: This isn't about us <<<

Yeah, I won't even yup� it.

[Guest Kong76]

I'll add that I'm against nearly decade long deals for anyone or anything.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.

I think the Mets should have Snachez hail Teixeira a cab when he comes to town for the contract announcement.

[metirish]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2gy0nvub]F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.[/quote:2gy0nvub] Noting to add really except a big fuck yeah.

MFS62 Dec 24 2008 05:42 AM

Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff? :ater

Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:43 AM

="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract. metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn." Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose. DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM 8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it? DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM Stoopid arithmetic Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?) DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway. DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM ]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh. metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher. duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't. metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM Not a chance I would do that. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM ]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster. metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench! Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job? Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins). metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM Incredible . Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM The Yankees really have to shore things up at second. Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM ="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

[MFS62]

Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff?

:ater

[Frayed Knot]

="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract.

metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM

WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days.

seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM

Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn."

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM

See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose.

DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM

8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM

You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it?

DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM

Stoopid arithmetic

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM

I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn

DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM

AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi

TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM

NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson

DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM

NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace

DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM

AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz

Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM

I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?)

DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM

That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start.

Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM

Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy

Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM

Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway.

DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM

]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh.

metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM

Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher.

duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise

If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better.

seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM

Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.

metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM

Not a chance I would do that.

Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM

]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM

I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench!

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM

So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job?

Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM

Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins).

metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM

Incredible .

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM

The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.

Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM

="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

[metirish]

WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days.

[seawolf17]

Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively.

I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn."

[Guest Edgy DC]

See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them."

The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames.

Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does.

I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium.

They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose.

[DocTee]

8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at.

Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it?

[DocTee]

Stoopid arithmetic

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'll do the NL East:

Atlanta: BJ Surhoff
Florida: Derrek Lee
Montreal: Lee Stevens
Philadelphia: Travis Lee
New York: Mo Vaughn

[DocTee]

AL East:

Baltimore: Jeff Conine
Boston: Tony Clark
Tampa: Steve Cox
Toronto: Carlos Delgado
MFY: Jason Giambi

[TransMonk]

NL Central:

St. Louis: Tino Martinez
Houston: Jeff Bagwell
Cincy: Sean Casey
Pittsburgh: Kevin Young
Chicago: Fred McGriff
Milwaukee: Richie Sexson

[DocTee]

NL West:

Dodgers: Eric Karros
Giants: JT Snow
Rockies: Todd Helton
Padres: Phil Nevin
Diamondbacks: Mark Grace

[DocTee]

AL West:

Oakland: Carlos Pena
Seattle: John Olerud
Texas: Rafael Palmeiro
LAA: Benji Gil

AL Central:

Chicago: Paul Konerko
Cleveland: Jim Thome
Detroit: Dmitri Young
Kansas City: Mike Sweeney
Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm not sure what this proves.

Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years.

If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later.

(And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?)

[DocTee]

That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start.

[nymr83]

Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy

[Frayed Knot]

Yanx without real positions this year.

Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year.
Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year.
Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years.
Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH.

Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often.
And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway.

[DocTee]

]I'm not sure what this proves.

It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh.

[metirish]

Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher.