Starting Pitching, ought-nine

[A Boy Named Seo]

After Johan and Pelfrey, there's Maine coming off injury, Niese, and a black hole.

You hope to get the same from Pelf and don't know what the hell to expect from Maine. Lots of shoulder shrugging and finger crossing going on here.

Pedro? Bah.

I think Lowe would be an awesome choice, but not if it'll take AJ Burnett money and years to sign him. That Burnett contract I'm sure solidified Ollie's bargaining position quite a bit, too. Of the two, I'd rather have Ollie, just cuz he's 9 years younger than Lowe and because I love him.

Ben Sheets at the rumored 2 years/$13M per would be a fun gamble.

John Garland's a name that gets thrown around lots. Jason Marquis now, too. Blecch on both really.

I say:

-Re-sign Ollie
-Take a stab at Sheets

-Santana
-Sheets
-Pelfrey
-Perez
-Maine
and Niese when Sheets or Maine or whoever else blows up.

What say you?

[soupcan]

Re-sign Ollie - 'specially with the Phils being all lefthanded.

Marquis as #5.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I really wanted the Mets to replace Oliver Perez with somebody better.

Doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Marquis would be a trade guy and is due something close to $10M in '09, then is an FA. Cubbies were rumored to want Show in a deal for Marquis, but something could be done still, I bet.

Nice that the commitment would only be a year, but I want better.

I want Sheets.

Brad Penny's available, too, but he ain't no good at baseball no more.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

My wish list
1a) Ollie
1b) Sheets

2) Wolfpack

3) Marquis, etc.

I want someone who can be very good some nights -- I think Ollie and Sheets are those guys.

Wolf is a fine pitcher.

Marquis is a MFY fann.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I forgot about Wolf. I'm on board with the Lunchbucket plan.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just keep thinking of Lowe as sowe unlikeable.

He just seems like the type of guy who shows up between starts with off-the-field injuries that we only find about gradually.

[bmfc1]

Sheets is injury-prone... remember when he was shutting out the Mets but then felt "something" and left?

http://www.leaptoad.com/mets/gamedetail.php?gameno=7532

Lowe is fine with me--he's clutch.

And there's this guy, who might be a Met:

http://www.japaneseballplayers.com/en/player.php?id=ktakahashi

[metirish]

I would like to have Ollie back but I am curious what the stupid deal Burnett got going to do for negotiations there.

[Valadius]

I want Yu Darvish.

[DocTee]

If you want a lefty to counteract the Phillies, sign Jamie Moyer.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

="DocTee":16efcp4l]If you want a lefty to counteract the Phillies, sign Jamie Moyer.[/quote:16efcp4l] I'd rather have Perez, thanks.

MFS62 Dec 13 2008 08:03 PM

Johan and Pelfrey were gettin' kind of itchy To see what pitchers Omar would sign There ain�t many workin' for a penny When it comes to free agent time In a coffee house ol� Derek sat He wants the National League, just so he can bat Lowe�s not gettin� shyer His price is gettin� higher Its L.A., he thinks where that's at And no one's gettin' fat except Scott Boor-ass Omar says "gen�rally, you know there aren't many" "Who can throw the way that Lowe do, shut your mouth" Boor-ass said "Golly, I don�t do this for folly Don't you think that I wish I could sign him with you�? Lowe, Omar and Bor-ass sat And after Wilpon�s stock loss, Omar�ll have to pass the hat. Lowe and his liar, numbers a-gettin� higher Its L.A., to him where its at And no one's gettin' fat except except Scott Boor-ass Later

Zvon Dec 13 2008 09:30 PM

End the contest! DING! We have a winner.^ That's classicalarious 62. Knew exactly what song it was too, simply by reading the first line. _________ We need another lefty for the rotation. Badly. I would like to see Perez resigned, but not for five years. If not Wolf or that other O. Perez (Odalis). Gotta get that lefty.

Gwreck Dec 13 2008 10:50 PM

="Benjamin Grimm":13b2f06a]I really wanted the Mets to replace Oliver Perez with somebody better.[/quote:13b2f06a] Your options were CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett. ="Benjamin Grimm":13b2f06a]Doesn't look like that's going to happen.[/quote:13b2f06a] Not as such, no. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 03:53 AM A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no? MFS62 Dec 14 2008 08:05 AM ="Edgy DC":3w4qau61]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:3w4qau61] One of the radioheads in New York had been saying that Sheets is actually a better investment than Burnett. He's a Yankee fan (Max Kelerman- mid day on ESPN radio), so he eased off when the Yanks signed Burnett. Of course, with Sheets, there's the caveat emptor thingie - frequent injuries. Later Nymr83 Dec 14 2008 11:49 AM ="Edgy DC":jsxxb7kc]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:jsxxb7kc] Sheets is way better than Perez when healthy, but has Sheets ever stayed healthy for long? A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2008 12:36 PM Sheets had a 3 year run of good health from 02-04. Last year he made 31 starts before he got shut down at the end of the year. He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. Daily News sez Mets thinking about Tim Redding. ]STARTING THE SEARCH: The Mets' primary concern this week is to address their starting pitching needs and team officials met Monday to go over free agents. They will look at numerous pitchers, said a baseball official familiar with their thinking. Randy Wolf, Oliver Perez and, if the price is right, Derek Lowe, are among the possibilities. The Mets have not done anything on Ben Sheets, though they'll "look at everyone on the list," the official said. Among the new free agents who hit the market when their old teams did not offer them 2009 contracts, the Mets have expressed interest in Tim Redding, according to another baseball official. Redding was 10-11 with a 4.95 ERA for the Nationals last season, making 33 starts and pitching 182 innings. Redding, 31 in February, is 34-51 with a 4.92 ERA in parts of seven seasons with the Astros, Padres, Yankees and Nats. He might be attractive to the Mets because he was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season. ... The Mets will introduce K-Rod at their annual holiday party for kids tomorrow. Manager Jerry Manuel, Mike (Santa) Pelfrey and John Maine will also be in attendance. I hope they sneak a look at that Daniel Cabrera, late of Baltimore. He seems like the kinda guy the Mets loved to pick up for a while there. Hard-throwing, high-ceiling, but erratic. He was non-tendered by the O's. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 12:49 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":qtbgj35j] He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. [/quote:qtbgj35j] A sexy question mark. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 12:52 PM seawolf17 Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 01:20 PM I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 01:56 PM She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party. metirish Dec 16 2008 02:13 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market." metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone. Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM ]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM Well Augmented Gal? metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right? A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM ="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[MFS62]

Johan and Pelfrey were gettin' kind of itchy
To see what pitchers Omar would sign
There ain�t many workin' for a penny
When it comes to free agent time
In a coffee house ol� Derek sat
He wants the National League, just so he can bat

Lowe�s not gettin� shyer
His price is gettin� higher
Its L.A., he thinks where that's at
And no one's gettin' fat except Scott Boor-ass

Omar says "gen�rally, you know there aren't many"
"Who can throw the way that Lowe do, shut your mouth"
Boor-ass said "Golly, I don�t do this for folly
Don't you think that I wish I could sign him with you�?
Lowe, Omar and Bor-ass sat
And after Wilpon�s stock loss,
Omar�ll have to pass the hat.

Lowe and his liar, numbers a-gettin� higher
Its L.A., to him where its at
And no one's gettin' fat except except Scott Boor-ass

Later

[Zvon]

End the contest!
DING!
We have a winner.^
That's classicalarious 62.

Knew exactly what song it was too, simply by reading the first line.
_________

We need another lefty for the rotation. Badly.

I would like to see Perez resigned, but not for five years.

If not Wolf or that other O. Perez (Odalis).
Gotta get that lefty.

[Gwreck]

="Benjamin Grimm":13b2f06a]I really wanted the Mets to replace Oliver Perez with somebody better.[/quote:13b2f06a] Your options were CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett. ="Benjamin Grimm":13b2f06a]Doesn't look like that's going to happen.[/quote:13b2f06a] Not as such, no. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 03:53 AM A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no? MFS62 Dec 14 2008 08:05 AM ="Edgy DC":3w4qau61]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:3w4qau61] One of the radioheads in New York had been saying that Sheets is actually a better investment than Burnett. He's a Yankee fan (Max Kelerman- mid day on ESPN radio), so he eased off when the Yanks signed Burnett. Of course, with Sheets, there's the caveat emptor thingie - frequent injuries. Later Nymr83 Dec 14 2008 11:49 AM ="Edgy DC":jsxxb7kc]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:jsxxb7kc] Sheets is way better than Perez when healthy, but has Sheets ever stayed healthy for long? A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2008 12:36 PM Sheets had a 3 year run of good health from 02-04. Last year he made 31 starts before he got shut down at the end of the year. He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. Daily News sez Mets thinking about Tim Redding. ]STARTING THE SEARCH: The Mets' primary concern this week is to address their starting pitching needs and team officials met Monday to go over free agents. They will look at numerous pitchers, said a baseball official familiar with their thinking. Randy Wolf, Oliver Perez and, if the price is right, Derek Lowe, are among the possibilities. The Mets have not done anything on Ben Sheets, though they'll "look at everyone on the list," the official said. Among the new free agents who hit the market when their old teams did not offer them 2009 contracts, the Mets have expressed interest in Tim Redding, according to another baseball official. Redding was 10-11 with a 4.95 ERA for the Nationals last season, making 33 starts and pitching 182 innings. Redding, 31 in February, is 34-51 with a 4.92 ERA in parts of seven seasons with the Astros, Padres, Yankees and Nats. He might be attractive to the Mets because he was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season. ... The Mets will introduce K-Rod at their annual holiday party for kids tomorrow. Manager Jerry Manuel, Mike (Santa) Pelfrey and John Maine will also be in attendance. I hope they sneak a look at that Daniel Cabrera, late of Baltimore. He seems like the kinda guy the Mets loved to pick up for a while there. Hard-throwing, high-ceiling, but erratic. He was non-tendered by the O's. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 12:49 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":qtbgj35j] He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. [/quote:qtbgj35j] A sexy question mark. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 12:52 PM seawolf17 Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 01:20 PM I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 01:56 PM She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party. metirish Dec 16 2008 02:13 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market." metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone. Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM ]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM Well Augmented Gal? metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right? A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM ="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[Guest Edgy DC]

A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?

[MFS62]

="Edgy DC":3w4qau61]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:3w4qau61] One of the radioheads in New York had been saying that Sheets is actually a better investment than Burnett. He's a Yankee fan (Max Kelerman- mid day on ESPN radio), so he eased off when the Yanks signed Burnett. Of course, with Sheets, there's the caveat emptor thingie - frequent injuries. Later

Nymr83 Dec 14 2008 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":jsxxb7kc]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:jsxxb7kc] Sheets is way better than Perez when healthy, but has Sheets ever stayed healthy for long? A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2008 12:36 PM Sheets had a 3 year run of good health from 02-04. Last year he made 31 starts before he got shut down at the end of the year. He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. Daily News sez Mets thinking about Tim Redding. ]STARTING THE SEARCH: The Mets' primary concern this week is to address their starting pitching needs and team officials met Monday to go over free agents. They will look at numerous pitchers, said a baseball official familiar with their thinking. Randy Wolf, Oliver Perez and, if the price is right, Derek Lowe, are among the possibilities. The Mets have not done anything on Ben Sheets, though they'll "look at everyone on the list," the official said. Among the new free agents who hit the market when their old teams did not offer them 2009 contracts, the Mets have expressed interest in Tim Redding, according to another baseball official. Redding was 10-11 with a 4.95 ERA for the Nationals last season, making 33 starts and pitching 182 innings. Redding, 31 in February, is 34-51 with a 4.92 ERA in parts of seven seasons with the Astros, Padres, Yankees and Nats. He might be attractive to the Mets because he was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season. ... The Mets will introduce K-Rod at their annual holiday party for kids tomorrow. Manager Jerry Manuel, Mike (Santa) Pelfrey and John Maine will also be in attendance. I hope they sneak a look at that Daniel Cabrera, late of Baltimore. He seems like the kinda guy the Mets loved to pick up for a while there. Hard-throwing, high-ceiling, but erratic. He was non-tendered by the O's. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 12:49 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":qtbgj35j] He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. [/quote:qtbgj35j] A sexy question mark. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 12:52 PM seawolf17 Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 01:20 PM I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 01:56 PM She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party. metirish Dec 16 2008 02:13 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market." metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone. Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM ]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM Well Augmented Gal? metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right? A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM ="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[nymr83]

="Edgy DC":jsxxb7kc]A healthy Ben Sheets might be better. I think he's pretty comparable, no?[/quote:jsxxb7kc] Sheets is way better than Perez when healthy, but has Sheets ever stayed healthy for long?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2008 12:36 PM

Sheets had a 3 year run of good health from 02-04. Last year he made 31 starts before he got shut down at the end of the year. He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. Daily News sez Mets thinking about Tim Redding. ]STARTING THE SEARCH: The Mets' primary concern this week is to address their starting pitching needs and team officials met Monday to go over free agents. They will look at numerous pitchers, said a baseball official familiar with their thinking. Randy Wolf, Oliver Perez and, if the price is right, Derek Lowe, are among the possibilities. The Mets have not done anything on Ben Sheets, though they'll "look at everyone on the list," the official said. Among the new free agents who hit the market when their old teams did not offer them 2009 contracts, the Mets have expressed interest in Tim Redding, according to another baseball official. Redding was 10-11 with a 4.95 ERA for the Nationals last season, making 33 starts and pitching 182 innings. Redding, 31 in February, is 34-51 with a 4.92 ERA in parts of seven seasons with the Astros, Padres, Yankees and Nats. He might be attractive to the Mets because he was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season. ... The Mets will introduce K-Rod at their annual holiday party for kids tomorrow. Manager Jerry Manuel, Mike (Santa) Pelfrey and John Maine will also be in attendance. I hope they sneak a look at that Daniel Cabrera, late of Baltimore. He seems like the kinda guy the Mets loved to pick up for a while there. Hard-throwing, high-ceiling, but erratic. He was non-tendered by the O's.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 12:49 PM

="A Boy Named Seo":qtbgj35j] He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. [/quote:qtbgj35j] A sexy question mark. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 12:52 PM seawolf17 Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 01:20 PM I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 01:56 PM She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party. metirish Dec 16 2008 02:13 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market." metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone. Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM ]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM Well Augmented Gal? metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right? A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM ="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Sheets had a 3 year run of good health from 02-04. Last year he made 31 starts before he got shut down at the end of the year. He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one.

Daily News sez Mets thinking about Tim Redding.

]STARTING THE SEARCH: The Mets' primary concern this week is to address their starting pitching needs and team officials met Monday to go over free agents. They will look at numerous pitchers, said a baseball official familiar with their thinking. Randy Wolf, Oliver Perez and, if the price is right, Derek Lowe, are among the possibilities. The Mets have not done anything on Ben Sheets, though they'll "look at everyone on the list," the official said. Among the new free agents who hit the market when their old teams did not offer them 2009 contracts, the Mets have expressed interest in Tim Redding, according to another baseball official. Redding was 10-11 with a 4.95 ERA for the Nationals last season, making 33 starts and pitching 182 innings. Redding, 31 in February, is 34-51 with a 4.92 ERA in parts of seven seasons with the Astros, Padres, Yankees and Nats. He might be attractive to the Mets because he was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season. ... The Mets will introduce K-Rod at their annual holiday party for kids tomorrow. Manager Jerry Manuel, Mike (Santa) Pelfrey and John Maine will also be in attendance.

I hope they sneak a look at that Daniel Cabrera, late of Baltimore. He seems like the kinda guy the Mets loved to pick up for a while there. Hard-throwing, high-ceiling, but erratic. He was non-tendered by the O's.

[Benjamin Grimm]

="A Boy Named Seo":qtbgj35j] He's a question mark for sure, but a sexy one. [/quote:qtbgj35j] A sexy question mark.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 12:52 PM

seawolf17 Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM

I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 01:20 PM

I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2008 01:56 PM

She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.

metirish Dec 16 2008 02:13 PM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market." metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone. Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM ]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM Well Augmented Gal? metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right? A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party. A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM ="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

[seawolf17]

I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car.

I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I concede to Johnny Lunchbucket in the sexy question mark photo hunt competition.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.

[metirish]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2pdsn56e]She's some English soccer player's wife. You can tell because she's trying to sneak a few soccer balls into the costume party.[/quote:2pdsn56e] Otherwise known as a WAG.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 10:42 AM

Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no? Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me. ]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season. Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates. ] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market."

metirish Dec 17 2008 10:50 AM

Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 11:03 AM

]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. Pedro Martinez would fit that category too.

metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:31 AM

i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 11:35 AM

Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 11:56 AM

Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:13 PM

Well Augmented Gal?

metirish Dec 17 2008 12:17 PM

WAG = Wives & Girlfriends But you knew that right?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:19 PM

No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:32 PM

="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for. seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM ="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Daily News and Newsday both run starting pitching articles today and both basically say the same. Ollie's the preference, Lowe's nice, but too expensive, Wolf, and Redding, and Niese, etc. Kawakami is the 39-year old dude, no?

Sheets not on the radar according to the Snooze. "Boo!!!!" sez me.

]The Mets spent Tuesday again discussing starting pitching options and today will formally introduce someone who should make being a member of the Met rotation a bit more comfortable - new closer Francisco Rodriguez. Rodriguez is making an appearance at the Mets' annual holiday party, along with Jerry Manuel, GM Omar Minaya, Mike Pelfrey (who will play Santa Claus) and John Maine. After sampling a few candy canes, Minaya will get back to work sifting through the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market. "We're going to look at everyone on the list," Minaya said. Re-signing Oliver Perez, which Minaya called "50-50" at the winter meetings, seems to be their first choice, but the Mets have inquired about several other pitchers, as well, and there are other intriguing names available since last week's non-tender deadline. The Mets are interested in Derek Lowe, although Minaya has acknowledged that he is likely to soar out of their price range. Still, if Lowe's price doesn't get too exorbitant, the Mets would be a suitor. Others in the mix include lefty Randy Wolf, whom the Mets have shown interest in, according to a baseball official. They also have expressed interest in Tim Redding, who was non-tendered by the Nationals last week. Japanese import Kenshin Kawakami might be a fallback option, too, and the Mets have long admired Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets, a high-reward, high-risk free agent, is not on the Met radar, according to a baseball official. Daniel Cabrera, who was not tendered a contract by the Orioles last week, was slated to pitch in a winter-league game in the Dominican Republic last night and could be a possibility. With teams eyeballing him in person, bidding could heat up quickly for Cabrera. Johan Santana, Maine and Pelfrey are the Mets' top three starters right now, and the team figures it will add another starter this winter. The Mets could use some rotation depth, in part to have several candidates to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth spot in the rotation, and in case any of the primary arms get hurt during the season.

Newsdaymentions Bartolo Colon and Eric Milton as filler candidates.

] The Mets have two slots in their starting rotation to fill, and they know what they want to do with the more important one. To replace Oliver Perez, who had become a vital pitcher, they want either Perez himself or Derek Lowe. To replace the diminished Pedro Martinez, however, the Mets are internally debating their options. Some team officials want to hand the fifth starter's job to lefthander Jon Niese, while others want to create some competition for Niese, 22, and ideally have the rookie begin the 2009 season with Triple-A Buffalo. The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training. If the veteran wins the spot, then Niese can get more seasoning in the minor leagues. If Niese pitches better, then he might possess increased confidence. Niese made three starts for the 2008 Mets and posted a 1-1 record and 7.07 ERA. He allowed 20 hits and eight walks, striking out 11, in 14 innings. Before his big-league call-up in September, Niese made 22 starts for Double-A Binghamton (he went 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA, striking out 112 and walking 44 in 124 1/3 innings) and seven starts for Triple-A New Orleans (he went 5-1 with a 3.40 ERA, striking out 32 and walking 14 in 39 2/3 innings). The decision on Niese and his potential competition likely won't come until January, or even early February. For now, the Mets are focusing on acquiring a top-flight starter. Lowe's price could fall to a place where the Mets are more comfortable. And if Lowe's doesn't, then Perez's could. The Mets would consider free agents Randy Wolf and Jon Garland only if they whiff on Lowe and Perez. As another fallback, they have reached out to Tom O'Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, whom the Nationals non-tendered last Friday. Redding, 30, pitched 182 innings for Washington, posting a 10-11 record and 4.95 ERA. "So far, we've been contacted by at least 10 teams," said O'Connell, an alumnus of Shoreham-Wading River High School. "[Redding] had a very solid year. He could've easily won 15 games. I think he's going to be an outstanding pitcher in this market."

[metirish]

Not surprised that Sheets is not in the plans , the Mets never sign FA starting pitchers that are injury prone.

[Benjamin Grimm]

]The Mets could pursue a low-risk, high-reward starting pitcher - among the free agents fitting that category are Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia and Eric Milton - and hold a competition pitting such veterans against Niese in spring training.

Pedro Martinez would fit that category too.

[metsmarathon]

i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Every time somebody posts in this thread, those things hit me in the head.