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Schaefer Commentary II

Benjamin Grimm

By Benjamin Grimm
in New York Mets Talk

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m.e.t.b.o.t. Prep Ball

m.e.t.b.o.t.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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G-Fafif wrote:
Hollow Box:

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270603121


m.e.t.b.o.t. would like to point out that, if m.e.t.b.o.t. were capable of feelings, and of being offended, that the above would likely have triggered m.e.t.b.o.t.'s indignation circuitry. m.e.t.b.o.t. hopes that presumed human poster 'G-Fafiff' did not intend any offense and is unaware of any potential for offense that the above phrase might have to robots, and others who happen to be boxy, box-shaped, or constructed of boxes.


G-Fafif College Ball

G-Fafif

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If m.e.t.b.o.t. can process apologies, please process apology for boxy comment. Hollow box characterization intended to reflect lack of good news in box score.


G-Fafif College Ball

G-Fafif

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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One point awarded for Newhan's 0-for-1 last night because he wound up on second on the fly ball that Rowand didn't handle with two out in the ninth. It was positively Grote-esque (if you saw Game Four of the '69 Series on SNY or, for that matter, 38 years ago).

Newhan has been mostly worthless as a pinch-hitter but he does hustle like few of his contemporaries. I've begun to root like hell for him even if I'd rather not see him all that much.


Elster88 Prep Ball

Elster88

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I am very strongly against Sosa getting only 3 points for the 6/8 game. That's crazy-low. And part of why pitchers will never win a Schaefer PotY.


Benjamin Grimm FCL Mets

Benjamin Grimm

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Elster88 wrote:
I am very strongly against Sosa getting only 3 points for the 6/8 game. That's crazy-low. And part of why pitchers will never win a Schaefer PotY.


One person voted him 3 points. Everyone else (so far) has been at 5 or more.

So he's not going to "get" only 3. He'll just about sure to end up over 5, which is fair.

I agree though that many voters don't give starting pitchers enough points.

I also think managers don't give starting pitchers enough innings, but that's a different story.


Guest iramets

Guest iramets

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Posted
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Yancy Street Gang wrote:
="Elster88"]I am very strongly against Sosa getting only 3 points for the 6/8 game. That's crazy-low. And part of why pitchers will never win a Schaefer PotY.


One person voted him 3 points. Everyone else (so far) has been at 5 or more.

So he's not going to "get" only 3. He'll just about sure to end up over 5, which is fair.

I agree though that many voters don't give starting pitchers enough points.

I also think managers don't give starting pitchers enough innings, but that's a different story.


See, here where's eliminating outliers would help. Not so much, again, because the "3" vote would get tossed, but because the person casting the "3" vote would understand that he or she wasting his vote, and so maybe cast a more intelligent one.

I'll shut up about this any time you say.


Guest Iubitul

Guest Iubitul

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Elster88 wrote:
I am very strongly against Sosa getting only 3 points for the 6/8 game. That's crazy-low. And part of why pitchers will never win a Schaefer PotY.


Sosa would have been given more points if he threw with his other hand


Guest Edgy DC

Guest Edgy DC

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Posted
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Averages cancel out outliers just fine.


Elster88 Prep Ball

Elster88

Old-Timey Member
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Yancy Street Gang wrote:
One person voted him 3 points. Everyone else (so far) has been at 5 or more.

And that's why I made my comment. To disagree with the one person. This is allowed, no?


Guest iramets

Guest iramets

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Yancy Street Gang wrote:
Marathon pretty much proved that eliminating outliers would have a negligible effect, while costing me great effort.

Simply put, we're not gonna do it.


Well, he was arguing the mathemathics, while most of my argument is psychological. I'm not suggesting that you ought to do it, just that it would cut down on the number of stupid votes cast.


Guest Edgy DC

Guest Edgy DC

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Posted
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This seems obvious, but outliers aren't necessarily stupid.

They're the minority, and have a place.


Guest iramets

Guest iramets

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Edgy DC wrote:
This seems obvious, but outliers aren't necessarily stupid.

They're the minority, and have a place.


I promise you, I could cast some outliers that would strike you as exceedingly stupid, and yet wouldn't be the stupidest ones ever cast.


Guest Edgy DC

Guest Edgy DC

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Which wouldn't change my statement.


Willets Point Prep Ball

Willets Point

Old-Timey Member
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Elster88 wrote:
="Yancy Street Gang"]One person voted him 3 points. Everyone else (so far) has been at 5 or more.

And that's why I made my comment. To disagree with the one person. This is allowed, no?


Give it up. I've explained it before but each player is awarded points for certain achievements with points subtracted for certain failures. These points are then added up and prorated so that they add up to no more than 10 points. Thus all the points are relative for this one game only, hence the name Player of the Game. There's no set rule that six points must be awarded for every great pitching/hitting performance. In fact taking in account the relative performances of all the Mets player in a particular game, 6 points will likely only be awarded when only one player succeeds while all his teammates fail.

Beltran received 3 points for producing 2 of the runs that helped the Mets win, and Sosa received 3 points for not allowing the Tigers to score runs to take that lead away. Seems right to me and there's no shame in it. You'll notice that relatively Sosa and Beltran have far more points than any other player and if I were forced to vote like we did in the old polls, I'd vote for Sosa. He's definitely the player of the game, just not the only contributor. That's the whole reason for awarding Schaefer points. If you want it to be all or nothing, restart the polls.

Personally I see people awarding too many points to pitchers when sometimes they are getting 4, 5 & even 6 points even in games the Mets lose! And since starting pitchers only play in 1/5 of the team's games (tops) I don't see any grave injustice in a pitcher not receiving a player of the year award. Should that happen I think it would reflect more on just how much the everyday players suck to not be able to accrue enough points over 162 games.


metsmarathon College Ball

metsmarathon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


damnit, that sosa game is a killer, isn't it?

i've got all kinds of springs and gears and levers scattered all over the place here. poor m.e.t.b.o.t. was trying to compute his vote for jorge sosa and just flew all apart. i think i can put him back together again, but won't be easy. poor little guy just isn't built to handle such a single-handed effort at winning a game. as i'm picking through the pieces, i can see the output needle pegged at 6.99! my little robot isn't built to handle that - i was on a tight budget!

i think he'll be ok. i should be able to get this done without a trip to radio shack.

poor little guy. damn you jorge sosa!


nymr83 Prep Ball

nymr83

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


]And since starting pitchers only play in 1/5 of the team's games (tops) I don't see any grave injustice in a pitcher not receiving a player of the year award. Should that happen I think it would reflect more on just how much the everyday players suck to not be able to accrue enough points over 162 games


a good starting pitcher is responsible for more opponents' at-bats than a hitter is at-bats, they just happen to be concentrated into 1/5th of the games.


metsmarathon College Ball

metsmarathon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


of course, hitters also play defense...

and really, it all comes down to the voters. if the voters thought that the pitchers deserve more points, then they'll get more points.

my system is predisposed to boosting the pitchers' vote totals, but still i've got a hitter running away with the whole thing so far.


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