Bonds Steroid Use In New Book

[Guest HappyRecap]

The real joke was not having Bonds testify before that ridiculous committee where they were going to clean up baseball.

These politicians have done such a wonderful job of getting drugs off of the streets so of course they are qualified to put a plan in place to get steroids out of baseball.

Would have been great if Bonds had testified and someone had the maracas to ask him "...so you hit about 410 homers in 12 years but then about 295 in the next 6 or so, beginning at age 33....wassup with that?"

I really hope there is some asterisk put next to his name.

[seawolf17]

I dislike Bonds as much as the next guy, but I still don't think anything comes of this. "Proof" or not, did he break any MLB rules? Not at the time, he didn't. I'd say that until there's a positive test, there won't be any backlash.

Not to say his records aren't tainted; but what I'm saying is that we already "knew" they were tainted, even though we didn't have any proof. What will be interesting will be how MLB handles #715, should he get that far. It would probably be best for him to just take his bat and ball and Paula Abdul wig and go home and be with his family.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I agree with the consensus on the legality aspect of this, but in practical terms, baseball needs Bonds out of the picture. He's a symbol of how disfunctional MLB was regarding steroids, and everything he does from now on will just bring even more negative attention to baseball, particularly since he's about to break some monumental records.

Frankly, I think they should find a way to get Giambi out of the picture as well, but that's clearly not going to happen and for some reason, people no longer care that he used steroids.

Anyway, I think they need to cut some kind of deal with Bonds to get him to bow gracefully (or whatever the Bondsian equivalent is) out of baseball.

[metirish]

Hold it a second here, Bonds and his freakish steroid taking HR hitters helped bring baseball back to where it is right now, never as popular according to Selig, gonna break attendence records again this year he says, yeah lets dump all the players suspected of taking steroids in the past, what a lame league it would make for.

[Willets Point]

Sounds like scapegoating to me. I don't think a witch hunt to find and remove all 'roids users from 1995-2005 and expunge their records will do much good. I'm of the opinion that performance-enhancing drug use was the rule rather than the exception the past decade and thus singling out a few prominent players to punish is unfair. I think we have to accept that the stats of the past decade are tainted, but that since drug use was rampant it in a sense created a level playing field for that era (and of course this will be kept in mind when comparing to other eras). The rules in place if followed properly should bring back credibility to the game as well as prevent the uneccessary health risks of performance. As for the past, there's not much that can be done to change that so I say what's done is done. Many of these players are near the end of their careers anyhow and others will see their abilities dwindle now that they have to play honestly.

[Frayed Knot]

]did he break any MLB rules? Not at the time

Well yeah he did. The steroids that are named in this story have been banned in MLB for over a decade now. The only part that's new in the last few years is the agrrement that the league could pro-actively seek out the users.

Again, I think the main problem with taking action based on these "new" revelations is that they really amount to only a preponderous of evidence: the ex-girlfriend's rants, trainer Anderson's supplying patterns, etc.; rather than hand-in-the-cookie-jar proof as spelled out in baseball 'Basic Agreement'.


btw, anyone else get a kick out of the fact that one of the authors has the mouthful of a name of: Mark Fainaru-Wada when WADA is also the acronym for World Anti-Doping Agency?

[Guest Rotblatt]

Willets Point wrote: Sounds like scapegoating to me. I don't think a witch hunt to find and remove all 'roids users from 1995-2005 and expunge their records will do much good. I'm of the opinion that performance-enhancing drug use was the rule rather than the exception the past decade and thus singling out a few prominent players to punish is unfair. I think we have to accept that the stats of the past decade are tainted, but that since drug use was rampant it in a sense created a level playing field for that era (and of course this will be kept in mind when comparing to other eras). The rules in place if followed properly should bring back credibility to the game as well as prevent the uneccessary health risks of performance. As for the past, there's not much that can be done to change that so I say what's done is done. Many of these players are near the end of their careers anyhow and others will see their abilities dwindle now that they have to play honestly.

Bonds is a special case, not only because he became the most prolific home run hitter since Ruth over the last few years, but because his ass was nailed so completely to the wall.

Anyway, I'm not talking about a witch hunt, I'm talking about quietly working something out with Bonds to get him to retire.

No (further) public disgrace, just a quiet exit from baseball.

[Willets Point]

I'm thinking that he's going to quietly exit from baseball soon anyhow so why bother with the pr ugliness of trying to force him out.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Willets Point wrote: I'm thinking that he's going to quietly exit from baseball soon anyhow so why bother with the pr ugliness of trying to force him out.

I would agree, but if he passes Ruth, it's going to spark a huge, public debate over steroids, and in an election year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Congress take an active role in the discussion. That could be bad for baseball.

Although maybe people don't care, given Giambi becoming a folk hero to MFY fans.

[Willets Point]

Well you know, Yankee fans aren't people.

[metsmarathon]

chris russo is an idiot.

[nymr83]

] chris russo is an idiot.

yes, but what does that have to do with this thread? i didnt see any mention of russo...

]Frankly, I think they should find a way to get Giambi out of the picture as well, but that's clearly not going to happen and for some reason, people no longer care that he used steroids.

Giambi isn't nearing any HR records, if he were we'd be outraged, as it is we don't care as much.

[metirish]

I think part of what makes me support Bonds is that while he gets hammered by the national media Lance Armstrong is a hero, that sport is known for keeping ahead of the testers, if you think that Bonds took steroids, which I do then you should view Armstrong with great suspision, he has a great story though while Bonds is considered a prick by most.

[soupcan]

I think its possible that Lance is/was a juicer but you'd really have to have some compelling evidence for me to seriously question him. So far everything I've seen or heard is really circumstantial and presented by people either with a grudge or with something to gain by tearing him down.

Barry on the other end is a walking, talking 'Exhibit A'.

[nymr83]

When Bonds recovers from life-threatening cancer to dominate his sport I'll give him the same respect Lance gets...

[metsmarathon]

sorry, i was hoping somebody else had had the pleasure of listening to teh mike n mad dog interview of one of the authors of the book. i was trying to lead in to a discussion of what was said, even tho it was basically so ridiculous so as to not warrant any real discsussion, i guess. but i'll give it a try anyways.

basically, chris started the following approximate train(wreck) of logic:

bonds began taking steroids in 1998
bonds appeared in post season in 2000
bonds performed terribly in post season (and did the authors "run a statistical analysis on" bonds' performance in that postseason! HA!)
how, therefore, can you say that steroids made him a better ballplayer?
shouldn't tehy have made him a better player in that postseason?

also, bonds' 1993 was better than his 2000, so how much did the steroids really help him become a better player in the regular season?

also that the authors are putting the book out there to make money, and to his mind, that's a bad thing that severely tarnishes teh authors' credibility (essentially that if all they were out to do was to tell a true story, then presumably they should have simply made the info available to the public for free. i guess they should've just donated all the books straight into public libraries and eaten the cost. or, i dunno, provided all teh information in their columns in the SF chronicle like they did the past two years)

...
the brilliant duo also had preceded this interview with a discussion of how steroids are more likely a problem in baseball than football, and that maybe the linemen are doing roids, but the skill positions sure wouldn't. and i guess maybe its conceivable that the recievers could. and i guess in a rare case a basketball player might be tempted to take roids, but had a hard time figuring out why.

as if the only reason you would take steroids as an athlete anymore would be to hit a baseball farther. and that, y'know, a quarterback would have no need for a steroid. and almost certainly not a basketball player.

which is an essentially ridiculous proposition. any athlete could "benefit" from the use of steroids. otherwise, why would any of them strength train? or even agility train?

as if only hitters have muscles. nope - not quarterbacks! not centers or power forwards! nor point guards or running backs! not hockey players or pitchers! not golfers or tennis players! track guys might also use them, but surely not pitchers!

it was ludicrous. simply ludicrous.

that a 17-game slump or post season jitters could disprove that steroids made bonds a more powerful, and better, hitter, despite the preponderance of evidence from 1998-now.

yeah, bonds' '93 was better than his '00, i'll give ya that. but he was also about 29, and he slugged better in '00, with more homers in about 70 fewer at bats. and yeah, at a time when his production should have dropped, at a time when he was using, his production soared. but those 17 at bats call into question the fact that steroids (or, by analogy, strength in general) benefit a hitter.

idiot.

the rest of teh interview was laughable as well.

i hope its online soon. i was priceless. really.

[MFS62]

]bonds began taking steroids in 1998 bonds appeared in post season in 2000 bonds performed terribly in post season (and did the authors "run a statistical analysis on" bonds' performance in that postseason! HA!) how, therefore, can you say that steroids made him a better ballplayer? shouldn't tehy have made him a better player in that postseason?

Thon, when I heard that "logic" I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or scream "you stupid bastard" at the radio.
I chose the third oprion.

Later

[nymr83]

Russo is indeed fairly stupid, I remember once him and the Francessa talking about Delgado being from Puerto Rico and they didn't seem to know jack shit about Puerto Rico thinking it a foreign country along the lines of Cuba or the Dominican Republic, i felt like calling up and giving them a history lesson but whats the point?

[Guest Rotblatt]

Anyone watch the Daily Show last night? Rob Corddry as senior steroids analyst was hilarious--it was more the timing than anything else, but I'll try to duplicate it here anyway.

John: "Rob, how did your interview with Barry Bonds go?"
Rob: "Well, John, it was kind of tough."
John: "What happened?"
Rob [crazy deadpan]: "He tore a phone book in half and tried to fuck a Coke machine"

He remained unbelieveably straight-faced for the next 30 seconds of laughter and John doing his usual "What, are you serious?" face.

John: "Well, I hope you're alright."
Rob: "Sure, John, I'm fine, but the Coke machine--let's just say it only accepts exact change now."

They don't have a clip up on Comedy Central but it was a really hilarious bit . . .

[metirish]

Oh I would love to see that.....

[Guest Edgy DC]

I recall an actual account of of Coke machine copulation in (I think) an eighties Sports Illustrated expose of steroids in the professional bodybuilding circuit.

[Guest KC]

[HahnSolo]

]also that the authors are putting the book out there to make money, and to his mind, that's a bad thing that severely tarnishes teh authors' credibility

That's golden, since Russo is the guy who has been humping his forthcoming book on a daily basis on his show.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: I recall an actual account of of Coke machine copulation in (I think) an eighties Sports Illustrated expose of steroids in the professional bodybuilding circuit.

I don't get it. What's the connection between Coke machines and steroids?

(Or is the answer not fit for nine-year-olds?)

[Guest Rotblatt]

That's a good question, Yance. Maybe the boys burn while they're shrinking and the cold is soothing?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the reported side effect was a testes shrunk to the size of cocktail peanuts but an almost constant erection, so the bodybuilders would be lying about the hotel between workouts looking for things to do with their woodies. While the account of the 'roidboy humping the change slot of the coke machine is almost certainly exaggerated or pure myth, it stuck with me and it's funny to read it again. Maybe the writer of the sketch read the same article and it stuck with him or her.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

So that's what they were referring to on The Daily Show last night!

Thanks for the explanation Edgy.

[Zvon]

Rotblatt wrote: Anyone watch the Daily Show last night? Rob Corddry as senior steroids analyst was hilarious--it was more the timing than anything else, but I'll try to duplicate it here anyway. John: "Rob, how did your interview with Barry Bonds go?" Rob: "Well, John, it was kind of tough." John: "What happened?" Rob [crazy deadpan]: "He tore a phone book in half and tried to fuck a Coke machine" He remained unbelieveably straight-faced for the next 30 seconds of laughter and John doing his usual "What, are you serious?" face. John: "Well, I hope you're alright." Rob: "Sure, John, I'm fine, but the Coke machine--let's just say it only accepts exact change now." They don't have a clip up on Comedy Central but it was a really hilarious bit . . .

That was a classic bit.:)
Rob Corddry is the master of the fake news report these days since Colbert got his own gig.

[Zvon]

Rotblatt wrote: Anyway, I think they need to cut some kind of deal with Bonds to get him to bow gracefully (or whatever the Bondsian equivalent is) out of baseball.

[rant]
Bonds wont step down.
It would be nice if he realized the jig was up, but he wont.

He became obsessed.
Obsessed with HRs, fame, Mac and his uncle Willies records, himself, and ultimately enhancement drugs.
Nothing was gonna stand in his way.
Not his age, not the rules, and certainly not the truth.

The sad thing is he could have had a nice little Hall Of Fame career just going with his God given talents.
Everything he has accomplished since he started pumping this shit into his system is now tainted.

I have no answer as to how baseball should handle this.
They cannot and will not erase records. An simple asterisk is not enough.
The players union has made sure to protect players who THEY KNOW were using in the past by the wording of their agreement with MLB.

Baseball has looked the other way for a long time.
The San Francisco Giants managment knew what was going on and condoned it.

But still there must be a distinction between Mr Bonds accomplishments and those of players that did not cheat and did not lie.
For the good of everything that I hold sacred about this game, he must be held accountable for his indescretions.
He does not deserve to stand tall with the likes of Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, and Hank Aaron.

As far as the record books go..........? I dunno. What can be done?

What if as this new century progresses physical enhancement drugs are created that are more acceptable to society?
Safer to use.
There are already many acceptable things available to todays athletes that were not to those of the past that aid them physically.
It seems every day a new drug is being created that enhances the quality of life.

This is certainly a possibility that may end up separating and closing the book on baseball records of the 20th century, truly the golden age of baseball.

[/end rant]

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Records have to stand. In the future, they'll look at what happened between say, 1990 and 2002 and know they came during the "questionable training methods era" and move on.