The Buck stops here?

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

https://nypost.com/2021/12/02/why-mets-should-hire-buck-showalter-as-their-next-manager/https://nypost.com/2021/12/02/why-mets-should-hire-buck-showalter-as-their-next-manager/



Mike Vaccaro is the latest to opine that Buck Showalter should be the Mets manager.

And the team itself, to be blunt, could use an intestinal makeover. Let's use that phrase instead of the over-battered and uber-bloodied “culture,” because what the Mets crave transcends culture. They seek serious baseball leadership. It's perfectly fine to smile in the game; that's supposed to be the point. But Showalter's teams, in addition to almost always being of a superior collective baseball IQ, also take care of their business properly. The McNeil-Lindor silliness would have never have escalated to burlesque slapstick on the Showalter Mets, to name one recent fiasco. And the Mets' long-standing habit of sending mixed messages through the media would almost certainly cease. The Mets, under Showalter, would be a Showalter team. That may mean they're a couple of degrees less flamboyant, maybe a few layers less fun-loving. You could look it up — the personalities of Showalter's teams will never be confused with the '86 Mets, the '93 Phillies.

Adam Jones likes him: https://www.sny.tv/articles/adam-jones-buck-showalter-metshttps://www.sny.tv/articles/adam-jones-buck-showalter-mets



Winning record over 20 years is something to be applauded. Hasn't managed since 2018. Don't know what he thinks about the analytics. Old school.



What do you think?

[MFS62]

He seems to be able to get his players to play up to their abilities (which is a good skill) but his teams haven't gone beyond that.

He has a losing playoff record once he gets his teams there.



If the Mets were a young team, that would be good. Then he could develop them and then hand off the reins to a manager who could take them to the next step.

But many of the Mets are getting older or are on short term contracts, not a good long term mix for a manager of his talents.



I'm not totally against him, but he doesn't seem like the ideal candidate to me, based on their situation.



Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

Sure. Because the dozen or two post-season games Showalter managed is so much more telling than the thousands and thousands and thousands (did I say thousands?) of regular season games Showalter managed.



Don't even get me started on the total crap-shoot lucky charm nature of post-season baseball, where good teams play against other good teams and anybody can take the title. Anybody.



And Al Weis was one of the greatest power-hitting infielders there ever was.

[MFS62]

He asked what I thought and I did that.

If you think he should be hired, tell us why you think that.

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

=MFS62 post_id=82480 time=1638558428 user_id=60]
He asked what I thought and I did that.

If you think he should be hired, tell us why you think that.

Later

Edited December 3, 2021 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Most managers that have a losing playoff record, if they have a playoff record at all.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

plus he won damn world series already

[batmagadanleadoff]

I say "I dunno" because being better than the Nutjob Bunter Wee Willie Small Balls isn't much of a bar to beat.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Guest

[MFS62]

I say "I dunno" because being better than the Nutjob Bunter Wee Willie Small Balls is much of a threshold.

LOL!

On THAT we agree!



Later

[TransMonk]

I'd have preferred Showalter to Mickey, Beltran and Rojas at those times, so I'm not opposed to him now.

[G-Fafif]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: plus he won damn world series already

Managed two teams on the cusp of winning the World Series (MFYs and D'Backs) but was removed (in favor of Torre, then Brenly*) before he had the chance to perhaps finish the job.



*Bob Brenly — or as his coaches called him, Brenda.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Guest

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Eight time manager of the year.



Looks like Whitey Herzog from a distance.



I would have no ready complaints if he's the guy

[kcmets]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Eight time manager of the year.

Three times according to his wikipage - '94, '04 and '14.

[Frayed Knot]

I mentioned in a different thread (where the topic of first-timer vs old-hand was being discussed) that he'd be the first one I'd go to out of the old-hand names getting tossed around.

He seems to wear on players and front office after a couple of years but I'll worry about that a couple of years from now.

[Frayed Knot]

=G-Fafif post_id=82489 time=1638560871 user_id=55]

Managed two teams on the cusp of winning the World Series (MFYs and D'Backs) but was removed (in favor of Torre, then Brenda) ...

[Benjamin Grimm]

Starr.

[bmfc1]

Or, do you pick a newbie after firing a newbie?

https://sny.tv/articles/mets-manager-search-tracker-2022-seasonhttps://sny.tv/articles/mets-manager-search-tracker-2022-season

[MFS62]

It would not be the first time a Showalter wore a Mets uniform.

Back in 1976, Hyannis Mets player Nat (Buck's middle name) Showalter was named the Cape Cod League MVP, leading the league with a .434 batting average.

I'm not sure if it is the same person, but think it might be,



Later

Edited December 3, 2021 by Guest

[kcmets]

My guess, just for posting posterity sake, is they'll pick a newbie. Someone they

can mold, instead of someone who is approaching mold. Buck is not taking this job

without have a giant say so in what goes on and I don't think that's what the Mets

are looking for right now.

[Fman99]

Yes, put me down for "old white guy who knows MLB," please.

[bmfc1]

Note that Mike Shildt, formerly of STL and #3 in MoY voting, isn't being named/leaked as a candidate for the job. I thought that he'd be a frontrunner.



I don't know the right answer but this decision might be one of polar opposites: a 65-year old veteran who has managed more than 3000 games (Dusty Baker is 72 and he did well in HOU)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Showalter#Baltimore_Orioleshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Showalter#Baltimore_Orioles

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-colossal-inexplicable-mistake-of-buck-showalter-081733150.htmlhttps://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-colossal-inexplicable-mistake-of-buck-showalter-081733150.html (the decision that might have cost the Orioles a WS title)

or a 46-year old who has never managed anywhere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Espadahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Espada



Whatever they decide, it shouldn't be based on Luis's failures (he was new so we shouldn't hire another new guy) because everyone is different (and maybe Espada doesn't manage based on "up/downs").



Howie continues to campaign for Buck:

Edited December 4, 2021 by Guest

[The Hot Corner]

I would be fine with Showalter if the Mets can land him as manager. The Mets have been through numerous inexperienced managers (Randolph, Callaway, Beltran - sort of, and Rojas) over recent without much success to show for it. Their best seasons during the 21st century were under the experienced guidance of Bobby Valentine and Terri Collins.



The Mets can't afford to try breaking in a new manager, particularly when this team is currently being constructed to win now.

[Edgy MD]

“He'd have at least four championships (and I might argue one more that Three screwed up) if he didn't let his own ego get in the way. George told him to fire all hiss coaches in '95 because of the loss to the Mariners. He said no. George fired him. George then tried to hire him back the next day but Buck would have none of it.”

If this is the worst way you can frame the narrative in order to argue that the guy has an ego problem, I don't know what to say. That's not what an ego problem looks like to me.

[Fman99]

The Hot Corner wrote: The Mets have been through numerous inexperienced managers (Randolph, Callaway, Beltran - sort of, and Rojas) over recent without much success to show for it. Their best seasons during the 21st century were under the experienced guidance of Bobby Valentine and Terri Collins.

Yep this is what I keep coming back to.

[Ceetar]

The Hot Corner wrote: I would be fine with Showalter if the Mets can land him as manager. The Mets have been through numerous inexperienced managers (Randolph, Callaway, Beltran - sort of, and Rojas) over recent without much success to show for it. Their best seasons during the 21st century were under the experienced guidance of Bobby Valentine and Terri Collins. The Mets can't afford to try breaking in a new manager, particularly when this team is currently being constructed to win now.

But this is wrong? They floundered in the first year(s) of the century with Valentine, and then hired the established Howe, and also failed. It wasn't until they brought in the inexperienced Randolph that they started winning again. I don't know if you can really blame the collapse on him, but they tried to right the ship with Manuel, who had won a manager of the year award and it didn't work. They pivoted to Collins during their rebuild, probably for player dev reasons, and it wasn't like he groomed some young prospects into stars. It was mostly key acquisitions in 2015 that got them into the WS. Biggest players were guys like Cespedes, Reed, Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe, and of course Michael Conforto who was a rookie callup.



The reason people are talking about an established manager is because the Mets, and by extension the media, are talking about clubhouse chemistry nonsense and think that's the way to go about (presenting that they are) fixing it. But I think we've seen around the league that sometimes veterans, especially highly respected hall of fame caliber ones like Beltran, can actually do wonders. And of course, 99% of chemistry is winning games.



So the new guys, Randolph had success, Dick pic mick didn't (though he has a positive managerial record) and Rojas was the (At best) second choice to manage a team ravished and mishandled by MLB in a pandemic shortened season and whatever 2021 was.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I think trying to glean patterns of success out of experienced vs. first-timers is going to be futile.

[kcmets]

How's Buck with stranding runners in scoring position?

[Frayed Knot]

=kcmets post_id=82555 time=1638717816 user_id=53]
How's Buck with stranding runners in scoring position?

[Centerfield]

I've learned over the years that I have no idea if I'll like a manager until he manages my team. And I see nothing about Buck that I don't like so I'd be fine I guess until I see him manage.



I mean, basically if he's not sending dick pics to reporters then I'm good.

[kcmets]

=Centerfield post_id=82675 time=1638976748 user_id=65]I mean, basically if he's not sending dick pics to reporters then I'm good.