Collective Bargaining Agreement

[Edgy MD]

=Gwreck post_id=85975 time=1645111979 user_id=56]
Who was insulted?

[Gwreck]

Missed that. Agree, though: the lockout plus lowball offers by the owners is deeply insulting.

[kcmets]

SNY:

https://sny.tv/articles/latest-on-mlb-lockout-2021?fbclid=IwAR3gM1Wxwb3Aq6GkkOzeFxSJoTRHPAM6abqXnclKZWE0os0p-FOH5742K_ELatest on MLB lockout: Meeting between league and players lasts 15 minutes

[LWFS]

Worth noting-- as they fail to point out in the link-- that MLB reps walked out after 15 minutes.

[kcmets]

Sporting News:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/delayed-regular-season-apathy-could-send-mlb-to-very-bad-place/tnaubl1fp3yt8fevid5glsndDelayed regular season, apathy could send MLB to a very bad place

[Edgy MD]

It seems like apathy is their flagship product at this point.

[duan]

the owners are pathetic. They're a cosy cartel who make money out of an anti-trust exemption, yet they're still so greedy that they fuck this up to be sure they don't go near allowing people to earn what they should earn for their value.

If the structure of ownership/industry like this was replicated in Europe it'd have been broken up by a legal challenge long long long ago. 30 owners controlling players ability to move and earn? bonkers.

[kcmets]

=duan post_id=86008 time=1645206216 user_id=99]If the structure of ownership/industry like this was replicated in Europe it'd have been broken up by a legal challenge long long long ago.

[Frayed Knot]

=duan post_id=86008 time=1645206216 user_id=99]
the owners are pathetic. They're a cosy cartel who make money out of an anti-trust exemption, yet they're still so greedy that they fuck this up to be sure they don't go near allowing people to earn what they should earn for their value.

If the structure of ownership/industry like this was replicated in Europe it'd have been broken up by a legal challenge long long long ago. 30 owners controlling players ability to move and earn? bonkers.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

That's the sad truth.



MLB has a stupid anti-trust exemption, but in many ways, the other top-level US-based leagues operate with even more impunity.

[kcmets]

Europeans wouldn't stand for any of it! Any, I tell you.

[kcmets]

Cincinnati.com:

https://amp.cincinnati.com/amp/6860053001Daugherty: MLB disrespecting fans with plodding approach to labor talks

[kcmets]

The Boston Globe:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/19/sports/why-is-service-time-manipulation-so-important-players-mlb-labor-talks-consider-case-nick-pivetta/?outputType=ampWhy is service time manipulation so important to players in MLB labor talks? Consider the case of Nick Pivetta.

[ashie62]

Simple thing I don't know,



Since the owners locked out the players do the players get paid anything?



I assume no, but the players didn't start this.

[kcmets]

This came up earlier in this thread or maybe in another. No players ever got

paid to attend spring training so nothing different in 2022 I guess was the gist.

[Willets Point]

The Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/19/sports/why-is-service-time-manipulation-so-important-players-mlb-labor-talks-consider-case-nick-pivetta/?outputType=ampWhy is service time manipulation so important to players in MLB labor talks? Consider the case of Nick Pivetta.

Interesting. This reminds me of collusion in the 1980s in that the owners are deliberately not making their teams better in order to avoid paying players.

[bmfc1]

This pissed me off:

[bLOCKQUOTE]Remember when Cohen faced resistance in his bid to purchase the Mets, in part because other owners were worried that he would spend wildly?

Four owners -- Jerry Reinsdorf of the Chicago White Sox, Arte Moreno of the Los Angeles Angels, Bob Castellini of the Cincinnati Reds, and Ken Kendrick of the Arizona Diamondbacks -- voted against Cohen. Steinbrenner voted "yes," and Yankees president Randy Levine was an ally to Cohen during the process.

Well, now Cohen has begun to spend like Mets fans hoped and budget-conscious owners feared.

It seems awfully coincidental that his competitors have devised a proposal that could prevent him from ever doing it again. Even Cohen would have to think long and hard about losing high draft picks.

https://sny.tv/articles/mlb-proposal-steve-cohen-hal-steinbrennerhttps://sny.tv/articles/mlb-proposal-steve-cohen-hal-steinbrenner

[/bLOCKQUOTE]

We finally have an owner who treats NY as a big market and owners in small towns like Chicago and Los Angeles want to tell him what to do. I have no doubt that these are M*G* lovers who want a free market but here (like the NFL owners) they are socialists. They want to reap the shared revenue from national TV contracts (which are paid in part because of NYY-BOS matchups) and apparel sales but don't want to spend that money. F them.

[Edgy MD]

Player contracts only exist under an agreed-upon CBA. Without a CBA, the contracts aren't active. Deferred payments and bonuses have been received during the last two months and they will continue to be, but base salaries only happen during the season, and under a current CBA, so those will not happen should this proceed.

[duan]

If the structure of ownership/industry like this was replicated in Europe it'd have been broken up by a legal challenge long long long ago. Maybe even long long long longer ago! *rolleyes*

The point I am making here is not that 'Europe' is inherently better or worse, but that at least - in this case - you would not find that the interests of the the 'league' is put ahead of the players that are contracted. The football industry is as horrendous as MLB or the NFL in many ways, with regards to the commoditisation of players. However, the big difference was when the style of 'contract system' that allowed clubs to have excessive control over players was challenged in the courts it fell apart.



The biggest single moment was the case taken by a relatively mid range journeyman player Jean Marc Bosman. He was not a star, but a player at one of the better clubs in Belgium who wanted to leave to go another club in France. He was on about $3,000 a month

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_rulinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling





It wasn't all good, but it has definitely meant that players incomes have expanded exponentially - even at the lower levels of the game.

[kcmets]

CBSSports:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-mlbs-luxury-tax-became-a-lockout-sticking-point-and-why-owners-proposal-would-lead-to-drastic-changes/How MLB's luxury tax became a lockout sticking point and why owners'

proposal would lead to drastic changes

[kcmets]

St Louis Post-Dispatch:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/with-opening-day-in-jeopardy-a-decisive-week-arrives-for-mlb-players-union/article_1e29ab34-f7f8-542a-ad65-b025dc697e50.htmlWith opening day in jeopardy, a decisive week arrives for MLB, players' union

[Frayed Knot]

The current set-ups in the various professional leagues are allowed to survive because they all got there through collectively bargained agreements with their unions.

The minimum age restrictions in the NBA (one year post-high school) and NFL (three) have been deemed legal because they have the players union stamp of approval

as are the various rules governing requirements or restrictions for free-agency, plus minimum wages and other such stuff.

The infamous anti-trust exemptions allow the leagues to control such things as franchise additions or movement, something which is certainly an issue, but also which

long ago ceased to have control over player salaries. The days when sports could operate with unilaterally imposed lifetime servitude rules are long gone so the removal

of any remaining exemptions isn't going to be some sort of magic bullet that some seem to believe.

[Willets Point]

I read that too quickly and at first thought it said the minimum age for the NFL was three.

[kcmets]

NY Post:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/20/mlb-lockout-importance-of-playing-full-season-will-be-revealed/MLB, union are about to tell us how important playing full season really is

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I might be too optimistic here bit predicting an agreement is signed by late Friday afternoon, and camps reopening Monday.

[Frayed Knot]

Willets Point wrote: I read that too quickly and at first thought it said the minimum age for the NFL was three.

The draft-niks start tracking the players at age three. But considering the amount of 'red-shirting' that goes on at

the college level, a lot of the players are closer to twenty-three by the time they're finally draft eligible.

[kcmets]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I might be too optimistic here bit predicting an agreement is signed by late Friday afternoon, and camps reopening Monday.

I'm pro-optimism. Post something optimistic in the WW lll thread NOW!!!

[Edgy MD]

Controlling player salaries through their minor league careers and through the first five-six years of their major league careers is, for most players, controlling them into perpetuity.



And with the actions to remove the middle class at the major league level, the league has found a way to collectively box out a large share of players who survive into six years of service time.

[Fman99]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I might be too optimistic here bit predicting an agreement is signed by late Friday afternoon, and camps reopening Monday.

I'm going to choose to buy into your optimistic world view, as opposed to the shitdickery we've been exposed to thus far.

[Frayed Knot]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I might be too optimistic here bit predicting an agreement is signed by late Friday afternoon, and camps reopening Monday.

I'm tempted to jump on this train simply because I can't believe the owners really think that, after decades of rejecting salary caps, the players are suddenly going to swallow this attempt

at a cap in all but name. They can't possibly believe this is really going to work, and when exactly was the last time the players broke ranks and buckled on one of their core beliefs?