Carlos Beltran, 22nd Manager of the New York Mets

[Edgy MD]

dinosaur jesus wrote: One of the many reasons this is an interesting and surprising choice: there are very few successful managers who were star outfielders. The only one in the top fifty in wins is Dusty Baker, at 19th; Frank Robinson is 56th. It's pretty rare, in fact, for stars at any position to make it as managers. I'm curious why the Mets think Beltran can be an exception.

Casey Stengel was a borderline star outfielder.



OE: I guess I'd put Lupa Nella in that category also.

[Ceetar]

Love it, Beltran is awesome and smart and respected. He's got a sense of humor. He's willing to admit when he's wrong, willing to change. He's also willful and determined to succeed. (I could see that being catnip to Van Wagenen)

[Frayed Knot]

https://nypost.com/2019/11/01/carlos-beltran-is-brodie-van-wagenens-latest-bold-mets-move/Sherman's take (no word yet from Peabody)



- once they moved away [me: or were moved away on] from the 'Safe Choice' of Girardi it became a question of risk vs upside. This choice is likely higher on both.

- marks another step in the BVW era [think the Diaz/Cano and Stroman deals] of being 'bold', of shunning any outside noise and sticking to his 'process'

- Carlos grew better as the rounds of interviews went on

- he was a "low-pulse/high-intelligence' player; other players 'gravitate' to his knowledge & persona

- bilingual, was a star, lives in NY, positive relationship with reporters

- this choice shows the Mets to be less concerned with public and/or media feedback than prior history indicates

[Mex17]

I.



HATE.



THIS.





I am not naïve enough to not realize that this is a trend going on in MLB, but I don't agree with the trend. Whatever happened to working your way up the chain? Slowly, diligently, and methodically, picking up wisdom and hard earned lessons as you go? Bogar is a 3x minor league manager of the year with extensive experience in the majors as a coach. Shelton has a winning record as a minor league manager and tons of coaching experience in The Show. Perez has managed in the Puerto Rican Winter Leagues and the WBC.



The Braves and the Cardinals both made the playoffs this year with guys who paid their dues in their respective systems.



This sort of thing is an insult to guys like that.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Guest

[Ceetar]

boo hoo.



I don't need any of this gate-keeping. There's no "right way" to become a manager.

[RealityChuck]

The team just tweeted it was official.



Beltran has a lot of strengths and weaknesses:



Strengths

Known to be a smart baseball man.

Knows the NYC media frenzy.

Bilingual

Connection with the team.

He wanted the job more.*



Weaknesses

Obviously, no managerial experience. Terry Collins will help if he's bench coach.** Note, too, that none of the names (after Gerardi) had any great experience as a manager.

Superstars don't often make good managers.





Perceived weaknesses

He didn't swing.

He wasn't a superstar out of the box when he first signed with them. His first season was only league average and people expected more.

Communications. The story when the team first signed him was that he was cold and aloof. But the players didn't find that so: Beltran approached Wright and suggested they work out together, for instance. The press bought into the story. Note, too, that in recent years they've warmed up to him.





*The most important factor in a successful hire is how much the person wants the job.



**Beltran specifically asked for Collins, and had asked for him when he was interviewing for the Yankees job, too, so don't blame the Wilpons.

[Mex17]

boo hoo. I don't need any of this gate-keeping. There's no "right way" to become a manager.

Great. Let's see what happens when Beltran completely clusterfucks an in-game situation that a seasoned guy has seen 100 times over or gets steamrolled over by the media in a presser.



For Pete's sake, we just got done with a pitching coach (not your traditional path either) who batted out of order in a MLB game!!!!

[RealityChuck]

This sort of thing is an insult to guys like that.

This sort of thinking is a bigger reason why we can't have good things.



See "The Peter Principle."

[Lefty Specialist]

My biggest question about the Beltran hiring is this:



Does he still have that gigantic mole on his ear?



[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

[Edgy MD]

I believe he does.

[Fman99]

Do we know that TC is the bench coach? That will help me like this move way more if so.

[metirish]

Los Mets



Funny the various accounts on Twitter claiming who had this first , that's a thing there... Apparently it was Sid Rosenberg



As for Beltran, wow , I would have preferred an experienced manager .. but looked like that was never going to happen.. BVW needs to get things right on the field

[metirish]

=Fman99 post_id=25797 time=1572660298 user_id=86]
Do we know that TC is the bench coach? That will help me like this move way more if so.

[LWFS]

The Collins suggestion came from Beltran, as per Tracky.



This TOTALLY won't end well, almost certainly almost entirely because it's Wilpon-suffused. But today, I'm toasting. The guy wanted to manage in New York so badly, he opted to return to THIS work environment. You can't say he doesn't know what he's getting into.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I wonder about the players, there's not many left but significant ones ... Conforto, Syndy, degrom -- who thought or were made to feel, that Collins wasn't right for them. They will likely say the right things, but...

[G-Fafif]

What problem did deGrom have with Collins?

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Not a problem with him, but understood the Terry Era was over for a reason.

[G-Fafif]

Tanned, rested and Terry — Beltran/Collins 2020!

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I'll get on board eventually. This wasn't the plan I'd have had.

[Edgy MD]

Met fans' desire for a flaming hothead as a manager must wait a while longer.



Do those still exist any more? Tightly wound, ump-baiting, locker-room spread flipping managers? I would think Girardi is as red ass they come anymore, but Carlos was always a cool, calculating cat.



The other thing mook Met fans are going to be reminding you of over the next few weeks is Walter Reed Medical Center.

[Mex17]

This sort of thing is an insult to guys like that. This sort of thinking is a bigger reason why we can't have good things. See "The Peter Principle."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principlehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle



The Peter Principle validates my viewpoint of this situation.



"The Peter principle states that a person who is competent at their job will earn promotion to a more senior position which requires different skills."



". . . skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."



Beltran has superior core competencies as a five-tool player who can play centerfield and anchor a lineup. Those competencies do not necessarily translate to competencies as a manager. Conversely, "minor league manager" and "major league bench coach" require competencies that align much more succinctly to the competencies that are required to be a major league manager.



Magic Johnson failed both as Lakers head coach and team president. Pat Riley was a middling at best NBA player.



Jim Zorn failed as an NFL head coach. Did Parcells and Belichick even have NFL playing careers?



Jeter, to my viewpoint, appears to be failing as Marlins grand poobah. What kind of player was Frank Cashen? Brian Cashman? Branch Rickey?

[MFS62]

And that is why he wants a bench coach who has the complimentary competencies.

Looking for a symbiotic relationship.

Later

[Mex17]

=MFS62 post_id=25818 time=1572692044 user_id=60]
And that is why he wants a bench coach who has the complimentary competencies.

Looking for a symbiotic relationship.

Later

[Mex17]

If this were Star Trek, it would be like giving Wesley Crusher command of the Enterprise after Picard was apprehended by the Borg while condescendingly giving Riker a nice pat on the head.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Met fans' desire for a flaming hothead as a manager must wait a while longer. Do those still exist any more? Tightly wound, ump-baiting, locker-room spread flipping managers? I would think Girardi is as red ass they come anymore, but Carlos was always a cool, calculating cat. The other thing mook Met fans are going to be reminding you of over the next few weeks is Walter Reed Medical Center.

how about the guy the Phillies fired?

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Pretty sure Beltran will be the first Mets manager ever inducted into the Hall of Fame while he's managing.



Will make it a difficult task to whack him in that run-up.



http://www.mbtn.net/?p=3168http://www.mbtn.net/?p=3168

[seawolf17]

Why would you whack a manager who just got into the Hall of Fame AND is coming off his third straight World Series win? That'd be odd.

[G-Fafif]

Yogi Berra was inducted into the Hall during his first season as manager, 1972.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=LWFS post_id=25801 time=1572661382 user_id=84]




This TOTALLY won't end well....

[Edgy MD]

=Mex17 post_id=25820 time=1572692422 user_id=67]
=MFS62 post_id=25818 time=1572692044 user_id=60]
And that is why he wants a bench coach who has the complimentary competencies.

Looking for a symbiotic relationship.

Later