Machado

[Frayed Knot]

He's going to be a topic of conversation this winter, so let's kick it off with this (from the NY Post via an interview in The Athletic):

“I’ve been thinking about [his non-hustling] and it happens every time, there’s no excuse for it honestly,” Machado said. “I’ve never given excuses for not running. I’m not hurt, there’s no excuse
but I’ve been the same player. … I’ve been doing this for [seven] years, I’m in The Show for [seven] years, I’ve done the same thing for [seven] years, I’ve been the same player.
“Obviously I’m not going to change, I’m not the type of player that’s going to be ‘Johnny Hustle,’ and run down the line and slide to first base and … you know, whatever can happen. That’s just
not my personality, that’s not my cup of tea, that’s not who I am.”

“Should I have run on that pitch?” he said of the fourth-inning ground ball in a 0-0 game, with his Dodgers then down 1-0 in the series to the Brewers. “Yeah … but I didn’t and I gotta pay the consequences
for it. It does look bad. It looks terrible. I look back at the video and I’m like, ‘Woah, what was I doing?’ You know, just the emotions of the game … I’m the type of player that has stayed in the zone, I’m
playing and I’m just in the zone.
“… Should I have given it a little more effort? One hundred percent. [it’s] my fault like always, I mean that’s just my mentality when I’m in the game. [There are] things that you learn, things that you gotta
change. I’ve tried changing it for eight years and I still can’t figure it out but, one of these days I will.”





FK: I hadn't thought of him during his career as a non-hustler but apparently it's been an open secret and I don't think I've ever heard a player cop to it in quite that way. But his lack of hustle
has been on full display during the post-season especially when he loafed on a tough infield grounder which he could have easily beat out but didn't particularly come close.
And here I was thinking that Bryce Harper was the one looking bad down the stretch of his season and towards his FA-gency.

btw, MM's career OPS is 126 points lower away from Camden Yards (887 vs 761)

[Ceetar]

I have very little issue with not tearing down the line on 99.9999% outs.

I have more of an issue with assault at second base, but he's still too good to stop me from coveting him.

[nymr83]

Ceetar wrote: I have very little issue with not tearing down the line on 99.9999% outs.

Ok sure, but even in the playoffs you cant bring yourself to care enough to run it out?

Makes me worry a little what you'll do when you have the next 8 years gauranteed in the bank.

Not worried enough that I wouldn't gladly sign him though.

[Frayed Knot]

I was just struck by the blatant, yet casual, way he dismisses that type of play.

Yeah I don't hustle, never have ... I know it's wrong but that's just who I am ... Maybe I'll change but probably not ... Deal with it.




I have no idea what "assault at second base" refers to.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Guest

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete.

[seawolf17]

Maybe he's kind of a dick?

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25004441/milwaukee-brewers-outfielder-christian-yelich-calls-los-angeles-dodgers-star-manny-machado-dirty-player

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete.

He's an honest jackass is what he is.
They should be busting g it down the line every single AB.

[HahnSolo]

I missed it, but I guess Machado clipped Aguilar while "running" out a ground ball, leading to posturing, cleared benches, and an epic postgame burn from Craig Counsell

When Brewers manager Craig Counsell was asked if Machado was going beyond the grounds of playing hard, he said, "I don't think he's playing all that hard."

[Guest d'Kong76]

I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and
fix things later when I get back on. Sorry.

OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete. He's an honest jackass is what he is. They should be busting g it down the line every single AB.

Fall weather should be cool and pleasant. Presidents should have dignity and a measure of gravitas. THIS PACKAGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE EARLIER. It's an imperfect world in which we're living and working and rage-Tweeting.

I just thought it was unusual-- and almost refreshing... almost-- to hear a public figure (never mind a professional athlete in a contract year) honestly assessing himself. Not excusing his actions, or defending himself... just, y'know, saying. As if he were surprising himself as he said it.

Yeah, I doubt the Aguilar thing was intentional.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Yeah I don't hustle, never have ... I know it's wrong but that's just who I am ... Maybe I'll change but probably not ... Deal with it.

Total turn off to my very core. If you don't care enough to run a ball
out playing a kids game for tens of millions of dollars, why should we
care enough to support you?

This is stupid, because it's softball, but we had a game years ago with two
outs down by one and man on second and third. Right-handed batter hits a
high inside-out pop up to right field, runners go on contact, and he slams his
bat down and yells SHIT, standing there feeling sorry for himself, and the right
fielder boots the ball and throws the dickhead out at first for the loss.

[Frayed Knot]

d'Kong76 wrote: I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and fix things later when I get back on. Sorry. OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing.

Eh, no biggie. I more or less remember what I wrote so I'll fix it.

[Frayed Knot]

Yelich: “[Machado] is a player who has a history of those type of incidents. “One time is an accident, but if you repeat it over and over again you’re just a dirty player.
It’s a dirty play by a dirty player. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can’t respect somebody who plays the game like that.”

And then, while walking away from the questioning, he added; “F–k that motherf—er”

[Edgy MD]

d'Kong76 wrote: I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and fix things later when I get back on. Sorry. OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing.

That was such an Edgy move.

[Ceetar]

[Benjamin Grimm]

This is what happens when you get mentored by Chase Utley.

[Centerfield]

Yeah, lots of red flags when looking at Machado for next year. The hustle thing definitely. Also the way he talks to the press. Some might find it refreshing that he's honest but that's a tough line to toe. You can definitely step into "abrasive" and then it's a nightmare with the media.

But more substantively, you always have to wonder about a hitter that comes from a bandbox and what it might do to his numbers. He seems to have adjusted to LA ok and hit just fine there. But over his career he has some pretty drastic home-away splits. Plus he great in 2018 and 2016, but had a down year overall in 2017. Can you imagine if he signs a big money deal, has a sub .800 OPS, and doesn't hustle? He'd get destroyed by the fans and media.

All the anti-[crossout]vaxxers[/crossout] payrollers would scream "See? Money doesn't equal winning!" It would set us back 20 years.

Plus, he definitely has that aloof manner of playing that can get fans to turn on you even when you're producing. I've only seen him for a little bit, but he makes Cespedes and Beltran look like Shane Victorino.

[Fman99]

Now that people think he's a dickhead I think the Mets are more likely to go after him. They only ever make the unpopular moves.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: Yeah, lots of red flags when looking at Machado for next year. The hustle thing definitely. Also the way he talks to the press.

Plus there's the haircut.

[Ceetar]

There was nothing 'non-hustle' about Carlos Beltran.

.265 BABIP in 2017, and he still was above average and a contributor. I'm not particularly worried. His Hard Hit % in 2017 was top 2% in the league. Top 5% this year.

He smashes the ball. HARD. Maybe it's more doubles and less home runs in a bigger park, but he hits the damn ball hard, and he doesn't strike out a ton. He had the 15th farthest HR in 2017 and the 65th this year and 2016. 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out.

Oh, and he's 26. He could get an 8 year deal and still basically be in his prime at the end of it.

I hate that he's this type of player (there are other issues) saw this elsewhere:

He also punched Yordano Ventura in the face piece, took out Dustin Pedroia (that slide was clean, IMO), hit Derek Norris with his backswings, cried when Josh Donaldson “swiped” at him with a tag...and probably more that I’ve forgotten. He strikes me as a AJ Pierzynski type, that guy who you like to play with but hate to play against, because he’s a butthole.

The Mets need him. he's a great fit. It'd be a bad blow if he went to Philly or Atlanta.

[Vic Sage]

Centerfield wrote: ...It would set us back 20 years...

Well, that would be ok. 20 years ago, we got Piazza, then won the WC, then we appeared in the WS. It would be much worse if a Machado signing just left us where we were.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Ceetar wrote: 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out.

That's a shot, like three times around the globe!

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. That's a shot, like three times around the globe!

yeah but he stood at home plate watching it the whole time so now we can't sign him.

[Vic Sage]

if he stood there watching it the whole time, he'd be, like, what... 37 now? Then no, we shouldn't sign him.

[smg58]

If I'm going to commit $300M to somebody, I would appreciate some modicum of class in return.

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: There was nothing 'non-hustle' about Carlos Beltran. .265 BABIP in 2017, and he still was above average and a contributor. I'm not particularly worried. His Hard Hit % in 2017 was top 2% in the league. Top 5% this year. He smashes the ball. HARD. Maybe it's more doubles and less home runs in a bigger park, but he hits the damn ball hard, and he doesn't strike out a ton. He had the 15th farthest HR in 2017 and the 65th this year and 2016. 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. Oh, and he's 26. He could get an 8 year deal and still basically be in his prime at the end of it. I hate that he's this type of player (there are other issues) saw this elsewhere: He also punched Yordano Ventura in the face piece, took out Dustin Pedroia (that slide was clean, IMO), hit Derek Norris with his backswings, cried when Josh Donaldson “swiped” at him with a tag...and probably more that I’ve forgotten. He strikes me as a AJ Pierzynski type, that guy who you like to play with but hate to play against, because he’s a butthole. The Mets need him. he's a great fit. It'd be a bad blow if he went to Philly or Atlanta.

Wait, don't get me wrong. I would still support the move. And ultimately the Mets need someone like him (if not specifically him). In fact, they might need a couple of hims. But I'm just saying be wary of signing him and then penciling him down for top 5 in MVP voting. He, like any other player, comes with his downsides, warts, or whatever you might want to call it.

I agree that there was nothing non-hustle about Carlos Beltran. But that didn't stop an idiot contingent of Mets fans from thinking that was the case. He ran hard so gracefully some critics didn't realize he was hustling. And they mistook his lack of fist-pumping as lack of desire. You can fist pump all you want. Give me the guy that plays with the broken face. That's fucking heart.

I've long said that Beltran's biggest talent and biggest curse was how stupidly easy he made things look. Norichika Aoki can get on all the highlight reels by turning the wrong way, stumbling around, then ultimately laying out to catch a fly ball, whereas Beltran just goes there and puts it in his pocket.

The best example is the Torii Hunter bullpen cop play. Often cited as the type of player Torii Hunter was. Hunter ran back on an Ortiz HR, toppled over into the bullpen, but ultimately didn't make the catch. Still gets tons of credit for hustling even to this day. Beltran tracked an Ortiz HR, ran back, robbed him, bounced off the wall, then threw back in to hold the other runners. Forgotten by the next inning.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Wait, don't get me wrong. I would still support the move. And ultimately the Mets need someone like him (if not specifically him). In fact, they might need a couple of hims. But I'm just saying be wary of signing him and then penciling him down for top 5 in MVP voting. He, like any other player, comes with his downsides, warts, or whatever you might want to call it.

Well yeah, true of virtually everyone. But I just wanted to present some evidence as to why 2017 was more of a fluke average season than an example of why he might not be a top player.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd get Macho if they'd put him at 3rd and cashier Frazier. I don't think that's likely tho.

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'd get Macho if they'd put him at 3rd and cashier Frazier. I don't think that's likely tho.

This is pretty much where I'm at too.

It's quite easy to say 'Oh just move Rosario' but is that really what we want to do? Moving Reyes in order to import a bat is a move still mocked today.
Now, yeah, there's a lot more evidence that Machado will hit better than Matsui (although everyone thought Matsui would hit better than Matsui too) but when you've got a highly touted
young SS (and maybe another behind him?) is signing a guy to a long term deal on the condition that he plays SS (assuming he can dictate terms here) really where you want to go?
Among the Machado articles today talking about him and about copping to his lack of hustle (many coming from an MFY pov) are scouting comments about how he "won't hurt you at SS",
but that he's also "not a plus defender" there, and that's now at age 26.

I guess it comes down to how much you/they believe in Rosario. End of season Amed was certainly a lot more promising than the early version* (both offensively and defensively) which
is maybe the beginning of something special for the not yet 23 y/o. That doesn't mean he's better than Machado -- certainly not now, quite likely not ever -- but when you find someone
who is really good at playing SS I rarely think it's a good move to move him off of SS so I'd rather see them spend their (however limited) allowance elsewhere than deal with round
holes and square pegs for the next few years.


* AUG + SEP = ~ .285/.318/.415 vs ~ .235/.280/.355 prior

Edited October 17, 2018 by Guest

[Centerfield]

I watched the replay. Certainly looks like Machado kicks him.

If I had to guess why I'd say maybe Aguilar was taking up more of the plate with his foot (rather than toeing it and stretching) than most 1B.