And now... the coaching staff

[Benjamin Grimm]

Now that the Mets have a manager, they need a bench coach, a pitching coach, and, perhaps, a hitting instructor.

For bench coach, I'd choose someone with experience as a manager, as well as recent experience in a National League dugout. There are probably quite a few guys out there who meet that criteria. The first name that comes to mind is Dusty Baker. There's also Larry Bowa, Terry Collins, the guy who was just fired in Philadelphia, and, I'm sure, many more.

As for the pitching coach, I have no idea. The Indians also have a vacancy for that role, and I found this article on Cleveland.com that evaluates possible candidates. Any candidate for the Indians job is potentially a candidate for the Mets job. Anyway, this list can be a starting point.

Who will replace Mickey Callaway? Cleveland Indians start search for new pitching coach Monday

Kirk Champion: He was a finalist for the job that went to Callaway before the 2013 season. He was Francona's pitching coach at Class AA Birmingham in the White Sox organization. Champion is the White Sox's director of minor league instruction. John Farrell: Farrell was just fired as Boston's manager after five seasons. He led the Red Sox to the World Series title in 2013 and three AL East titles. He has a long history with Francona and the Indians, the organization that drafted him in 1984 and brought him to the big leagues. Farrell was Francona's pitching coach in Boston from 2007 through 2010. Before joining Francona, he was the Indians' farm director from 2001 through 2006. Farrell went 36-46 with a 4.56 ERA in an eight-year big-league career. There is a chance Farrell could also join the Cubs. Theo Epstein, their top baseball man, hired him as Francona's pitching coach in Boston. Farrell might need some time away from the game to regroup or he could seek another manager's job. Jim Hickey: After 11 years with the Tampa Bay Rays, Hickey was relieved of his duties after the 2017 season. Hickey was one of the most successful pitching coaches in the big leagues during his tenure with the Rays. There is a good possibility he could rejoin former Tampa Bay manager Joe Maddon as the Cubs new pitching coach. Chris Bosio: The Cubs fired Bosio after they were eliminated in this year's NLCS by the Dodgers. There reportedly was a rift between him and Maddon. Bosio has been credited with helping develop several pitchers on the Cubs that helped them beat the Indians in the 2017 World Series. Bosio pitched 11 years in the big leagues, going 94-93 with a 3.96 ERA. Dave Righetti: The Giants let Righetti go after 18 years as their pitching coach. He helped develop the pitching staff that won World Series titles in 2010, 2012 and 2014. During his tenure in San Francisco, his pitchers threw five no-hitters and Tim Lincecum won two Cy Young awards. Righetti pitched 16 years in the big leagues. He went 82-79 with a 3.46 ERA and 252 saves. Mike Maddux: When the Nationals fired manager Dusty Baker after they failed to advance past the NLDS earlier this month they fired his entire staff as well. Maddux has a good reputation and is used to working with high-profile starters such as Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg in Washington and Yu Darvish in Texas. Maddux, the brother of Hall of Famer Greg Maddux, pitched 15 years in the big leagues.

[Ceetar]

the pitching coach is most interesting because you wonder how much Callaway will have his toe in.

[Frayed Knot]

My first reaction -- I brought his name up the other day -- was Maddux.
This is the first I'm hearing about Righetti being let go so he becomes an obvious choice to consider as well.

[Benjamin Grimm]

the pitching coach is most interesting because you wonder how much Callaway will have his toe in.

Yes, I was thinking that too.

Also from the same Cleveland.com article, where they discuss internal candidates, there's this guy:

Jason Bere: He just finished his third year as the Tribe's bullpen coach. He spent nine years before that working in the team's front office, focusing on instructing and evaluating pitchers in the farm system. Bere pitched 11 seasons in the big leagues, going 71-65 with a 5.14 ERA. He appeared in 211 games, 203 as a starter.

If Bere and Mickey have a good working relationship, I suppose he might be considered for the Mets job.

[Mex17]

I think that you can count out any pitching coach that you have heard of to get the job. Callaway's first move is not going to bring in a guy for his old job who might try to override him as the manager of the team.

If you want to speculate for pitching coach, it's probably better to start digging around the Indian's official website to see who they have as minor league pitching coaches/coordinators. My guess is that Callaway will try to poach one of them away.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Guest

[Ceetar]

Mex17 wrote: I think that you can count out any pitching coach that you have heard of to get the job. Callaway's fist move is not going to bring in a guy for his old job who might try to override him as the manager of the team. If you want to speculate for pitching coach, it's probably better to start digging around the Indian's official website to see who they have as minor league pitching coaches/coordinators. My guess is that Callaway will try to poach one of them away.

I figure it's either that, or the exact opposite. Someone big and grand who Callaway can feel comfortable distancing himself from and won't get the "is Callaway guiding X?" treatment that others would.

[Frayed Knot]

Mex17 wrote: I think that you can count out any pitching coach that you have heard of to get the job. Callaway's fist move is not going to bring in a guy for his old job who might try to override him as the manager of the team. If you want to speculate for pitching coach, it's probably better to start digging around the Indian's official website to see who they have as minor league pitching coaches/coordinators. My guess is that Callaway will try to poach one of them away.

I think just the opposite.
To start with, if Callaway is going to be too insecure with a proven ML pitching coach at his side then he probably shouldn't have been hired. His roots may be as a pitching coach but that's not his job
description anymore so if he's going treat it as a power struggle he's in trouble before he begins.
I also don't think this is going to be his call. This is likely a GM hire (hopefully with some input from the new guy) and I think GMs will tend towards surrounding inexperienced managers with more
experienced assistants. As a first-time skipper, Callaway's not simply going to go through his old list of buddies in his old org and pluck out who he wants.

[Ceetar]

And from our standpoint, I think we want someone strong in the role. Someone we can trust to take the decision from Callaway about who's ready, who's hot, who's gonna get this guy out.

We don't want Mickey running out there to talk to the pitcher instead of the pitching coach.

[Centerfield]

(was meant to agree with the FK post two posts above!)

I tend to agree with this. "Control" is perhaps too strong a word, but I think one of the big qualifications for manager was that the guy had to understand that Sandy's running the show, and he better be in line with the program.

[Mex17]

Ceetar wrote: And from our standpoint, I think we want someone strong in the role. Someone we can trust to take the decision from Callaway about who's ready, who's hot, who's gonna get this guy out. We don't want Mickey running out there to talk to the pitcher instead of the pitching coach.

What is the point of hiring Callaway then?

[Frayed Knot]

To be the manager, not manager AND de facto pitching coach.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think the idea that you can't hire experienced coaches because the manager might be threatened is a losing proposition. If they hired, for example, Dave Righetti as the pitching coach and Dusty Baker as the bench coach, I'd be totally fine with that.

[Lefty Specialist]

Wish I knew more about him. Hoping for the best.

Curious to see who his bench coach will be. Hopefully someone better than Dick Scott.

[Frayed Knot]

Curious to see who his bench coach will be. Hopefully someone better than Dick Scott.

Well it'll definitely be someone other than Dick Scott as he's the one person on the staff of whom it is said will definitely NOT be back next year.
On the other hand, I can't remember a single incident which made me either positive or negative towards Dick Scott so I'm not going to know 'better' or 'worse' if it bites me, at least not right off the bat.



As far as other coaches go:

- hitting coach Kevin Long is understandably "disappointed" after interviewing for the manager's job but not being selected.
"Right now, I think it's still a possibility he will be back on the staff, but we'll have to wait to see." said Alderson.
Long said his future is up in the air with the Mets and would not commit to 2018. "We'll see," he said via text.


- Dan Warthen has been offered another position within the organization but Sandy says he hasn't heard back from him yet.
Alderson also added that the hiring of the new pitching coach would be a "collaboration" with Callaway.


- 1st base coach Tom Goodwin and bullpen coach Ricky Bones were "uncertain of their status" although both their contracts run out on Oct 31


- only 3rd base coach Glen Sherlock is signed for next year


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/hiring-mickey-callaway-manager-mets-lose-kevin-long-article-1.3583916

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

Red Schoendienst is still available.

[metirish]

I find it interesting that so much ink is being given to the fact that a pitching coach got the job. I think Baker would be a great choice as bench coach.

[Edgy MD]

I think a guy usually gives it a year or two after he leaves a managing job before returning to the dugout as a bench coach. But, considering all the years he's put in and all the BS, he may be ready for his next act. Not my first choice, though.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy MD wrote: Not my first choice, though.

Because you're not high on Dusty, or because you have someone better in mind?

I floated Dusty Baker's name because it was at the tip of my tongue. (Or the tips of my fingers, more accurately.) I would like it to be an experienced manager who's had recent exposure to the National League.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, Dusty has managed in 19 of the last 22 seasons so I'm not sure he'll be mentally ready for the co-pilot's chair quite so soon, particularly when there are still open top jobs out there.
Also, Dusty's strength, at least as far as I read it, is that he's a good people manager but not the best strategist. I'd kind of want the opposite in a bench coach.

Torre & Zimmer were a good pair in that way. Torre was hardly an innovative manager but he read and managed his players well while keeping them shielded from the exuberant press and the often
irrational owner. Zimmer, when he did manage (Boston, Texas, Chicago) mainly managed to piss off many of his players the longer he hung around and in the six weeks that he ran the Yanx during
Torre's cancer treatment at the start of the 1999 season, that club, in the middle of what was one of the best six year runs ever and coming off their 114 win season, stumbled to a barely over .500
record while Zimmer ran them. When Torre came back they almost immediately took off and wound up with 98 wins (off a 21-17 start)
But from an in-game strategy viewpoint, Zimmer would sit next to Torre the entire game whispering suggestions in his ear that Joe was free to act on or ignore and Zim's gambling style was a perfect
counterpoint to Torre's natural conservatism and kept the manager on his toes.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Frayed Knot wrote: Also, Dusty's strength, at least as far as I read it, is that he's a good people manager but not the best strategist. I'd kind of want the opposite in a bench coach.

I agree that the key role of a bench coach should be to whisper strategic suggestions to the manager.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Not my first choice, though. Because you're not high on Dusty, or because you have someone better in mind?

Six of one and half dozen of the other, isn't it? It's all relative. I don't think highly of him relative to other available guys, yeah.

You need a guy who can help see the angles in the heat of the game. Gabriel Byrne in Miller's Crossing. Dusty never struck me as that guy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Names? Larry Bowa? Moose Stubing?

[Edgy MD]

Well, if Gabriel Byrne isn't available, Manny Acta, Charlie Manuel, Bobby Valentine, José Oquendo, Joe McEwing, Chip Hale, Tim Bogar, Don Wakamatsu, Tony Peña, Ken Macha, Phil Garner, Mike Jorgensen, Ken Oberkfell, and Lee Mazzilli all come to mind.

[Fman99]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Not my first choice, though. Because you're not high on Dusty, or because you have someone better in mind? I floated Dusty Baker's name because it was at the tip of my tongue. (Or the tips of my fingers, more accurately.) I would like it to be an experienced manager who's had recent exposure to the National League.

100% on this. New to managing, new to the NL. Get him some help.

[seawolf17]

Frayed Knot wrote: Well it'll definitely be someone other than Dick Scott as he's the one person on the staff of whom it is said will definitely NOT be back next year.

Who the hell is Dick Scott?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mets bench coach in 2017.

[seawolf17]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mets bench coach in 2017.

I was (sort of) kidding. I vaguely know who he was, but have zero specific recollections of him at all.

[Mex17]

http://nypost.com/2017/10/25/world-series-winning-pitching-coach-on-the-mets-radar/

I was going to let this go, agree to disagree, and just see what actually happens, but instead I guess that I am going to reference the above link and reiterate how much of a potential disaster this approach could be. The risk involved is possibly on the level of destroying this entire experiment of hiring a guy as your manager who, has not only never has managed before on any level except Division III college, but also someone who comes from the non-traditional avenue of being a pitching coach first. I don't have the specific numbers in front of me right now, but they have been referenced recently in the media to illustrate that the "pitching coach to manager" career track is infrequent. It has always seemed to me as a sort of independent department that has to report to and coordinate with the manager, but generally does it's own thing separate from the rest of the team.

Frayed Knot, I obviously agree with you when you say that Callaway was hired to be the manager and not the manager and de facto pitching coach, but only in the sense that the manager cannot get involved with the day to day minutia of being a pitching coach on account of obvious time constraints. This particular manager was hired clearly to, among other things, set the policy and the philosophy with regard to how the pitching is going to be handled. If he isn't going to be permitted to do that, than there were other candidates out there. But they selected this candidate.

Generally speaking, if you put two Alphas in the same room or on the same staff or whatever who share the same field of expertise but have differing approaches, then the results are not going to be good. . .

"Fuck you, I have been doing this for blah blah blah amount of years and I know that my way works because it has worked and I know what I am doing so get out of my way and manage the rest of the team!"

"Fuck you, I'm the manager around here and I've done your job and you work for me!"

That's what you do not want. I could be wrong, and am open to be persuaded, but that is not what you want.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure what disaster approach you're referencing. But if you hire abusive managers that tell coaches to fuck themselves, and insubordinate coaches that tell managers the same, that's generally bad no matter what the backgrounds of the principals.

[Mex17]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure what disaster approach you're referencing. But if you hire abusive managers that tell coaches to fuck themselves, and insubordinate coaches that tell managers the same, that's generally bad no matter what the backgrounds of the principals.

http://nypost.com/2017/10/24/mets-hired-their-own-version-of-mlbs-modern-manager/

The approach that I am referring to is one that would say that Callaway has no leverage to pick his own pitching coach because he is a rookie manager and should be grateful just to have a job so let's go out and get Dave Righetti (or whoever) because he is a "name". You have no idea if your "name" is going to jive with Callaway, especially if the "name" is more old-school. This above linked article expresses what should be happening now that they have committed to this direction. I'm not saying that it has to be this, but if Cleveland's bullpen coach or that organization's AAA pitching coach fits the bill moreso over the guy whose identity your can instantly recognize, than so be it.