What's next for Harvey?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I may already have my timing wrong but this was amid the drama of Harvey waffling on making his start. As I recall it, it was all hands on deck and balls to wall before he dropped the Diva Bomb. Will look up the exact time.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

yeah this happened in waffletime, before that 8-7 win but while Harvey was "focused in Tuesday" Wright also made it a point to dress down Harvey when he missed a workout a few weeks later.

[Edgy MD]

So, if you want to see that narrative, you have to make the uncomfortable choice, either Wright is an overbearing hardass, or Harvey is a self-centered and disruptive diva.

You don't have to see that narrative. You can believe too much is being made of nothing, and we're drawing inferences from an exchange on video that aren't necessarily there. But if you do see something, that's where you're at.

[seawolf17]

Edgy MD wrote: So, if you want to see that narrative, you have to make the uncomfortable choice, either Wright is an overbearing hardass, or Harvey is a self-centered and disruptive diva. You don't have to see that narrative. You can believe too much is being made of nothing, and we're drawing inferences from an exchange on video that aren't necessarily there. But if you do see something, that's where you're at.

Agree.

So Wright and Harvey aren't friends. Who gives a frig? They just have to work together.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It's not about being friends, but co-workers, yes.

Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself?

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself?

Yes. All you have to do is to watch that Qualcomm fiasco of an interview with Dan Patrick. It"s an extraordinarily revealing exchange that singlehandedly demonstrates how oblivious Harvey is.

[Guest themetfairy]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself? Yes. All you have to do is to watch that Qualcomm fiasco of an interview with Dan Patrick. It"s an extraordinarily revealing exchange that singlehandedly demonstrates how oblivious Harvey is.

And this is where Scott Boras has really failed Harvey. Boras has a stud client who obviously doesn't know how to handle these situations, and he's totally dropped the ball in preparing him for them.

[Edgy MD]

And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy.

[TransMonk]

There's also the organization (media staff, manager, teammates, etc) that, at times, has allowed themselves to be bullied by Harvey.

[Edgy MD]

There's certainly that.

I wonder how much Sandy being sick has put the team in a position where folks can't push back while feeling that their back is covered all the way to top.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I wouldn't be so sure that Boras has neglected to reign in Harvey. No doubt Boras supports Harvey's Q rating, but for all we know he drives him nuts too.

[Guest d'Kong76]

He very well could be a hey-you-work-for-me-and-if-you-don't-like-it-
I'll-go-find-another-agent-so-get-off-my-back type client.

I'm Harvey'd out... will revisit Harveymania late Monday afternoon
hopefully with a happy recap.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy.

you don't _have_ to see that narrative.

I think Wright likes Harvey just fine. I don't think Harvey is particularly bothered by the media being pissed with him, but occasionally Wright plays the Captain card and reminds him that his choices might be affecting the rest of the team.

And I bet there's a difference between talking about Harvey's bad outing versus Harvey's innings limit. No one got asked questions the other day that they weren't going to be asked anyway. Especially Plawecki. But having the media maraud into the clubhouse asking Michael Conforto what he thinks about the organization and Harvey's plan for pitching the rest of the season is a little more of a burden. Though, not that much bigger, and in a lot of cases the media is going to go and ask those guys anyway, trying to dig up dirt or just not happy with Harvey's cultivated answers.

It's also worth noting that it's a little contradictory to say Harvey's not a great under the spotlights interview and also criticize him for not speaking in the heat of the moment.

[Lefty Specialist]

d'Kong76 wrote: He very well could be a hey-you-work-for-me-and-if-you-don't-like-it- I'll-go-find-another-agent-so-get-off-my-back type client. I'm Harvey'd out... will revisit Harveymania late Monday afternoon hopefully with a happy recap.

Don't get your hopes up. The White Sox are throwing Sale on Monday.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy. you don't _have_ to see that narrative.

I don't, but we've specifically seen him bully his way past Horwitz and Collins.

Horwitz is old. Shannon Forde was dying. Collins was — at least at the time of the World Series confrontation — short, old, and without a contract in the most important moment of his baseball life. The catchers are big-league babies fighting for their careers.

All of these people, while nominally having some authority over Harvey, arin reality only have juice as long as they can be confident that Alderson has their backs. And with Alderson sick and perhaps not in general circulation (particularly this offseason), that authority seemingly defers to Jeff. And who can feel confident looking to Jeff Wilpon as the strong guy who has your back?

So, really, through the last year, the best hope for standing up to Butch in the last year has been David Wright. And Wright spent a good deal of that time away from the team.

[Centerfield]

d'Kong76 wrote: The Captain chimes in...

Weighing in late here.

Love David, but I don't agree with this at all. As a team captain, I think he should stick up for his teammates or say nothing at all. There is no reason to have your team captain pile on and vindicate the media. I especially don't like the part where it seems he's talking to the media before talking to Harvey.

I know it's not David's style and he has a great relationship with the media, and that's fine. But if I'm on the Mets, I want my team captain standing behind me. "Hey Mike Vaccaro, what headline did you run when my teammate was in the hospital? Yeah, that's right. Go fuck yourself."

This is the same criticism I had of Derek Jeter when ARod joined the Yankees and was getting booed for struggling at 3B. The team captain should have said "Look, he's a gold glove SS that unselfishly agreed to switch positions for the good of the team. The fans should recognize that and support him." But he didn't. Acting largely out of self-interest, Jeter didn't. He said something along the lines of "Alex Rodriguez is a professional and needs to deal with it." Gotta protect your player and address it internally.

Now, I don't think David's acting out of self-interest, like Jeter (I also don't think David is an overrated dickhead fraud), but David has a duty to protect his teammates here. No matter what he or other teammates might think, the company line has to be "Harvey is our teammate. He's struggling but we believe in him. We are behind him 100%."

Clearly David, and others, have issue with what Harvey did, and that's fine. Address it internally.

Look, Harvey seems like he's kinda dumb. Needs a lot of hand-holding. Help him out David.

[Ceetar]

Actually Wright's comments DO defend Harvey.

He's saying that Harvey IS an accountable guy, and should've talked to the media so that they don't think he's not accountable. He then went on to say "I think sometimes it's time to give somebody a little bit of space before you start talking about these things"

That's spin for "Fuck off, he was in a bad mood and needed some time to brood a bit"

[G-Fafif]

Don't worry, the columns can get dumber. Witness the perpetually sour Anthony Rieber in Newsday.

Five days after the World Series ended last year, CC Sabathia sat down for a network television interview about the alcoholism that caused him to seek treatment on the day before the Yankees began the postseason. Sabathia was interviewed again about that topic several times over the offseason as he participated in charity events. He answered questions about it again when he reported to spring training in February. This is much, much more difficult than facing the media after a rough start, and it’s much, much more important. Much has been said this week about another New York pitcher who refused to talk to the media after his latest in a string of poor outings. That other pitcher was criticized for leaving his teammates to talk for him, which is a no-no in major league clubhouses.

Use Sabathia's alcoholism and apparently more pleasant personality as a cudgel against the unnamed pitcher (ha, he won't identify Harvey specifically -- showed him). "Hi, I'm Anthony and I'm a fucking idiot." Dude also gets a plug in for MFY accountability.

[Edgy MD]

The other thing is that he's crediting Sabathia for being forthcoming in controlled and prepped interviews on his own terms. More power to him, but whatever you think of Harvey's cutting out, him sitting down right after the game is more like the equivalent of Sabathia talking about his alcoholism the morning after a bender.

Sabathia spoke five days after the World Series? Well, that gives Harvey a little over six months to be forthcoming enough to live up to the Sabathia gold standard.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy.

To an extent, doesn't it make sense that someone who motivates himself on-field with a snarling-warrior mindset would have something of the same leak into his approach to other fields of play?

[Edgy MD]

Perhaps, but he's, you know, supposed to be a grown-up.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

[scowls]
[stomps around a bit, fondling rosin bag]
[Adjusts pajama-like uniform; spits in public view]

[Zvon]

Centerfield wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: The Captain chimes in... Weighing in late here. Love David, but I don't agree with this at all. As a team captain, I think he should stick up for his teammates or say nothing at all. There is no reason to have your team captain pile on and vindicate the media. I especially don't like the part where it seems he's talking to the media before talking to Harvey. I know it's not David's style and he has a great relationship with the media, and that's fine. But if I'm on the Mets, I want my team captain standing behind me. "Hey Mike Vaccaro, what headline did you run when my teammate was in the hospital? Yeah, that's right. Go fuck yourself." This is the same criticism I had of Derek Jeter when ARod joined the Yankees and was getting booed for struggling at 3B. The team captain should have said "Look, he's a gold glove SS that unselfishly agreed to switch positions for the good of the team. The fans should recognize that and support him." But he didn't. Acting largely out of self-interest, Jeter didn't. He said something along the lines of "Alex Rodriguez is a professional and needs to deal with it." Gotta protect your player and address it internally. Now, I don't think David's acting out of self-interest, like Jeter (I also don't think David is an overrated dickhead fraud), but David has a duty to protect his teammates here. No matter what he or other teammates might think, the company line has to be "Harvey is our teammate. He's struggling but we believe in him. We are behind him 100%." Clearly David, and others, have issue with what Harvey did, and that's fine. Address it internally. Look, Harvey seems like he's kinda dumb. Needs a lot of hand-holding. Help him out David.

I agree with CF. Now if this was the 2nd or 3rd time he's done this (IIRC this was the first), okay, get a msg out. But after the last few outings and the way the media started circling like sharks, if I was The Captain my main concern would have been shielding/ deflecting for Matt at this time. I would have had his back and not gone the cliche or team route. I would have personally stood up for him.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Eureka!

Mets have identified mechanical flaw in Matt Harvey

By Mike Puma

May 27, 2016 | 8:43pm

Matt Harvey was back in the laboratory Friday searching for the perfect form. Instead of throwing a bullpen session, the scuffling Mets right-hander — for the second time in less than a week — held a between-starts workout on the field, with a batter standing in the box. The purpose, according to manager Terry Collins, was to correct a flaw in Harvey’s mechanics that team officials have spotted during recent games. “We’re seeing some things in certain situations when the hitters are in there that he’s doing mechanically that we’ve got to get fixed,” Collins said before the Mets faced the Dodgers. “Therefore we wanted hitters in there, even though it’s tough to simulate a regular game, but at least when you’ve got a hitter in the batter’s box, [Harvey] is looking at things a little differently.” Harvey, who is 3-7 with a 6.08 ERA, is scheduled to pitch at Citi Field on Monday. In his start against the Nationals on Tuesday, Harvey allowed three home runs and was removed after the fifth inning. The middle innings have doomed Harvey this season — opponents are batting .413 against him after the third inning. The Mets have ruled out the possibility Harvey is tipping his pitches. “There’s things going on the second time through the order that he’s doing, and I’m not going to get into them,” Collins said. “We’re seeing stuff he’s doing on the mound that it’s not giving away, but it’s keeping him from having the ability to make the pitches he needs to make. We’re seeing the velocity drop, and there’s a reason for that. We’re seeing lack of command for his breaking ball.”

http://nypost.com/2016/05/27/mets-have-identified-mechanical-flaw-in-matt-harvey/

[Benjamin Grimm]

Enough with "scuffling" already! The word isn't nearly adequate to convey how awful he's been.

[Edgy MD]

You're fighting a one-man war on the word, there!

I think it's got some interesting connotations. On one hand, it borrows from the words earlier meaning of "fighting," as in the player is fighting himself, and on the other, it's got some onomatopoeia qualities, filled with the friction of a machine whose gears aren't properly oiled, whose parts need calibrating.

I understand you don't think it's strong enough, but "sucking" is filled with sexual connotation (and gay sexual connotation), and so I imagine players and coaches are sensitive about using it in a tense situation, and writers too. There's a hit-and-miss about which papers will allow it.

"Struggling" is probably the best play there, but I'm guessing the writers have picked up "scuffling" from its frequent clubhouse usage.

[Centerfield]

You could always just go with "terrible".

[Edgy MD]

I hope we never get rid of Harvey. He just generates such lively discussions!

[fimg=600:3k46hhsr]https://metsinpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/screen-shot-2016-07-05-at-12-52-26-pm.png[/fimg:3k46hhsr]

[TransMonk]

With three starters (Noah, Jacob and Bart) having ERAs sub-3.00 and Matz with an ERA sub-3.50...could Harvey be the odd man out if/when Wheeler returns?

It's likely at least a month away, but I'm wondering how long Harvey can rely on patience.

[G-Fafif]

Placed on the DL with shoulder discomfort. Lugo up.