Bullpen 2016

[Centerfield]

It would be nice to build a KC like bullpen to supplement our rotation. Some useful pieces from last year come back. Familia. Reed. Robles. I guess Goedel is around as well, but last I heard, he may need TJ surgery. Mejia comes back after 80 games as well, but I'm not sure what the Mets plan to do with him.

Edgin comes back. So that will help. I think we still have Vic Black somewhere. I would like to see the Mets re-sign Blevins and Parnell if it can be done cheaply. I think both have the potential to bounce back.

I was thinking maybe Wheeler goes to the pen for the stretch run? Would be nice to have his 96 MPH in the 7th inning. Also, I think it's time to tell Rafael Montero that his role for the 2016 team is in the bullpen.

Bartolo Colon for long reliever?

Middle relief is such a crap shoot. It seems like the formula is:
1. Develop it yourself
2. Gamble on guys who used to be good to bounce back
3. Find a middle of the road starter who throws hard and put him in the pen and hope he turns into Wade Davis/Eric Gagne

[Edgy MD]

I think way too much was made of KC's superior bullpen. I was generally happy with what the Mets came with.

But, you know, KC won.

I think there are a lot of assets to work with, and they won't need too much supplementing. Montero's condition is a mystery to the public at the moment and may be a mystery to the Mets as well. Black too. I think I left him off the list of minor league free agents, but I'm pretty sure that's where he's headed. (I started that list before he got removed from the roster near the end of the season.

[A Boy Named Seo]

It almost seems antiquated to have right-handed relievers throwing less than 95 now. I think for the hitters, it probably feels like a little bit of a reprieve when the starter throwing 97 is lifted and the reliever is throwing 92, no matter how good the reliever's stuff is.

I'm not saying throw a pillow case full of cash at 'Big Money Free Agent Reliever' cause that sounds dumb. But we had leads in the 8th inning in 4 of the 5 games in the freaking World Series! If we had an Andrew Miller kind of lock-down™ reliever, I think shit woulda been different, horrible defense aside.

Maybe Robles is that guy. Not sure Mejia can be.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can see Robles getting a more prominent role.

Josh Edgin had his surgery right about when Zack Wheeler had his, right? So he'd also be on track for June or July instead of April.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen. Familia was fine, more or less. Gordon HR'd off him but that'll happen. Nobody's infallible. That freak error aka the inside the parker was the real killer in Game #1. I wish people wouldn't try and extrapolate so much deep meaning from five games. I find all this over- analysis so tedious and tiresome, I barely read any of it anymore. I'd rather just enjoy the WS for the spectacle that it is and the history that it'll make and leave it at that. I don't know that the Royals are better. What's better? The teams'd have to play each other hundreds of times head to head to figure that one out. And if they did and the Royals ended up winning, say, 154 out of 300, would that settle anything? The Mets absolutely demolished the Cubs in the NLCS. Made mince meat ouf of them. Does anybody really think the Mets are that much better than the Cubs? If at all?

Edited November 3, 2015 by Guest

[Centerfield]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen.

Really? In this thread? I'd go as far as to say no one is trying to redo the Mets bullpen here.

[A Boy Named Seo]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen. Familia was fine, more or less. Gordon HR'd off him but that'll happen. Nobody's infallible. That freak error aka the inside the parker was the real killer in Game #1. I wish people wouldn't try and extrapolate so much deep meaning from five games. I find all this over- analysis so tedious and tiresome, I barely read any of it anymore. I'd rather just enjoy the WS for the spectacle that it is and the history that it'll make and leave it at that. I don't know that the Royals are better. What's better? The teams'd have to play each other hundreds of times head to head to figure that one out. And if they did and the Royals ended up winning, say, 154 out of 300, would that settle anything? The Mets absolutely demolished the Cubs in the NLCS. Made mince meat ouf of them. Does anybody really think the Mets are that much better than the Cubs? If at all?

Familia is better than fine. I love Familia.

I think the bullpen problems people would like to address are those we saw over the course of more than the 5 games. Clippard was pretty much a disaster the last 5 or 6 weeks(?), and come playoff time, Terry (rightly or wrongly) trusted two starters over just about everyone else in the pen in any situation of importance.

I don't think the bully needs a full makeover, but it needs to be fortified with a solid dude or two (hard-throwing, IMO) .

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen. Really? In this thread? I'd go as far as to say no one is trying to redo the Mets bullpen here.

Some people are trying to redo some things. And all based on the Mets last five games. And I'm not necessarily talking about anybody on this forum. I'm talking about articles in the press/media. You know ... the talking heads.

[Centerfield]

Gotcha.

I don't think anything needs to be redone. Like I said, lots of good pieces in place. In fact, if the Mets did absolutely nothing this offseason to help the bullpen other than sign a lefty specialist, they might still be ok.

But it sure would be nice to get stronger.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen. Familia was fine, more or less. Gordon HR'd off him but that'll happen. Nobody's infallible. That freak error aka the inside the parker was the real killer in Game #1. I wish people wouldn't try and extrapolate so much deep meaning from five games. I find all this over- analysis so tedious and tiresome, I barely read any of it anymore. I'd rather just enjoy the WS for the spectacle that it is and the history that it'll make and leave it at that. I don't know that the Royals are better. What's better? The teams'd have to play each other hundreds of times head to head to figure that one out. And if they did and the Royals ended up winning, say, 154 out of 300, would that settle anything? The Mets absolutely demolished the Cubs in the NLCS. Made mince meat ouf of them. Does anybody really think the Mets are that much better than the Cubs? If at all?

The Mets led in every game. The Mets should lobby for shorter games.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: The Mets led in every game. The Mets should lobby for shorter games.

I was thinking the same thing. If they played seven inning games, the Mets'd be going for the crown tonight.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: The Mets led in every game. The Mets should lobby for shorter games. I was thinking the same thing. If they played seven inning games, the Mets'd be going for the crown tonight.

If they played seven inning games and someone catches the "inside the parker", the Mets are your 2015 World Champs.

[Centerfield]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: The Mets led in every game. The Mets should lobby for shorter games. I was thinking the same thing. If they played seven inning games, the Mets'd be going for the crown tonight. If they played seven inning games and someone catches the "inside the parker", the Mets are your 2015 World Champs.

More than any other play that IPHR will knaw at me the whole offseason. Shit defense showed up in the first inning and haunted us the rest of the series.

Shit defense aided by bad decisions from TC. Lagares should have played CF, with Conforto as DH.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

I hope they point Wheeler to the pen right from the start of his throwing program. Montero as well, but I've long thought Wheeler's power arm and high pitch counts were better suited to relieving than starting. Colon would be a nice luxury as long man / spot starter. Add in Blevins or another loogy and they should not have to add much to be solid.

[nymr83]

86-Dreamer wrote: I hope they point Wheeler to the pen right from the start of his throwing program. Montero as well, but I've long thought Wheeler's power arm and high pitch counts were better suited to relieving than starting. Colon would be a nice luxury as long man / spot starter. Add in Blevins or another loogy and they should not have to add much to be solid.

I think it would be a big mistake to shift Wheeler to the pen. If you really don't like him as starter the better move would be to wait until hes made some starts and then trade him, the trade value of "healthy Wheeler the starter" has got to be higher than the value of "Wheeler the reliever"

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: 86-Dreamer wrote: I hope they point Wheeler to the pen right from the start of his throwing program. Montero as well, but I've long thought Wheeler's power arm and high pitch counts were better suited to relieving than starting. Colon would be a nice luxury as long man / spot starter. Add in Blevins or another loogy and they should not have to add much to be solid. I think it would be a big mistake to shift Wheeler to the pen. If you really don't like him as starter the better move would be to wait until hes made some starts and then trade him, the trade value of "healthy Wheeler the starter" has got to be higher than the value of "Wheeler the reliever"

aka the Familia route.

Probably best to assume Wheeler isn't part of the plan and who knows if he'll need a little more time to 'get right' after Tommy John. If the Mets get to the Wheeler return date without a pitcher injury opening a slot for him, we can worry about it then. Seems unlikely.

[HahnSolo]

I loved Robles in Aug/Sep, and hope he gets the opportunity to pitch more important innings next year. And not ignored like he was in October.

[Edgy MD]

HahnSolo wrote: I loved Robles in Aug/Sep, and hope he gets the opportunity to pitch more important innings next year. And not ignored like he was in October.

I love Robles in the springtime
I love Robles in the fall
I love Robles in the summer, throwing cutters
I love Robles in the winter, choosing putters

I love Robles each appearance!
EACH APPEARANCE OF THE YEAR!
I love Robles, why, oh why do I love Robles?!
Because Tyler Clippard isn't there!

[willpie]

I thought both Colon and Niese looked great out of the pen. I'd be delighted if they kept both of them around, one as 5th-starter-til-Wheeler-Day, the other as spot-starter/long-man. Niese could conceivably become lefty-getter-outer-in-chief after Wheeler's return.

I enjoy Robles and Familia, and hope to see Vic Black again. I guess Reed was pretty good; I just never liked him.

[Edgy MD]

Mets control Niese for one more year, so he's likely your fifth starter. Montero, Verrett, and Gilmartin are available (SIR, YES, SIR!) for any emergencies that crop up before then, but I think we have some questions to work out with regard to Montero.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't remember, where did we leave off with Montero? Was there something that indicated that he wasn't too enthusiastic about pitching?

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't remember, where did we leave off with Montero? Was there something that indicated that he wasn't too enthusiastic about pitching?

He was complaining about pain, they couldn't find anything, there were insinuations that he was being lazy about ramping up his workload, they got on the same page about him getting into games, and then he was pulled/pulled himself from a game and all we got was a curt 'his season is over' from the Mets.

I may have missed something since though.

[Edgy MD]

Montero missed the most of the season with shoulder soreness, but the Mets were never able to diagnose anything. He kept trying to return and coming up short.

Latest report say that he's feeling great and that he may pitch winter ball to do some catching up.

[seawolf17]

Edgy MD wrote: Montero missed the most of the season with shoulder soreness, but the Mets were never able to diagnose anything. He kept trying to return and coming up short. Latest report say that he's feeling great and that he may pitch winter ball to do some catching up.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him be a throw-in somewhere this winter -- let him become someone else's headache.

[Edgy MD]

I'd certainly be surprised. His value is an unknown. Maybe winter ball could change that.

I don't think he should be considered a headache. Injured players happen.

[seawolf17]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think he should be considered a headache. Injured players happen.

I know, but IF there was any organizational frustration (is he hurt, yes he is, no he's not), then I could see another team being happy to take on that kind of promise.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

Ceetar wrote: Nymr83 wrote: 86-Dreamer wrote: I hope they point Wheeler to the pen right from the start of his throwing program. Montero as well, but I've long thought Wheeler's power arm and high pitch counts were better suited to relieving than starting. Colon would be a nice luxury as long man / spot starter. Add in Blevins or another loogy and they should not have to add much to be solid. I think it would be a big mistake to shift Wheeler to the pen. If you really don't like him as starter the better move would be to wait until hes made some starts and then trade him, the trade value of "healthy Wheeler the starter" has got to be higher than the value of "Wheeler the reliever" aka the Familia route. Probably best to assume Wheeler isn't part of the plan and who knows if he'll need a little more time to 'get right' after Tommy John. If the Mets get to the Wheeler return date without a pitcher injury opening a slot for him, we can worry about it then. Seems unlikely.

You are right about his 2016 trade value but I don't want to trade him - I want to win the 2016 World Series. I think a relief role fits in nicely with his skills, the Mets needs and a reduced post surgery workload. He could always go back to starting in spring training 2017.

[Ceetar]

86-Dreamer wrote: You are right about his 2016 trade value but I don't want to trade him - I want to win the 2016 World Series. I think a relief role fits in nicely with his skills, the Mets needs and a reduced post surgery workload. He could always go back to starting in spring training 2017.

Well we saw how Parnell did with his control in relief upon return, no saying we want someone still getting used to things in that role necessarily. And there's an argument to be made about getting Wheeler lots of reps so he's not hampered in 2017. But sure, if we get to July/August and the rotation is rolling and we need a reliever, it's certainly something to consider.

[Zvon]

86-Dreamer wrote: You are right about his 2016 trade value but I don't want to trade him - I want to win the 2016 World Series. I think a relief role fits in nicely with his skills, the Mets needs and a reduced post surgery workload. He could always go back to starting in spring training 2017.

I think this is a smart.

[metirish]

niese was a revelation coming in form the pen, seemed to be throwing harder and with nasty stuff......he's got to be kept around, unless he is used as part of a trade to get a bat,,,,Blevins coming back right?, Reed looked good until he didn't . Would like to see Bart back , can fill multiple rolls, good times a head .