A Half Dozen

[Edgy MD]

The Mets, for one of the rare times in their history, have announced their plan to effect a six-man pitching rotation.

Factors:

• The idea supposedly is to limit the workload of their young starters. The focus is on Harvey, but Syndergaard hasn't pitched a full season yet, and deGrom is a surgery case, and it's not like anybody thinks of Niese as the picture of health.
  
  
  
• How long it lasts is an open question.
  
  
  
• As much as the motive can be considered valid, one must also credit the means: the Mets have a glut of starters. Six will be in action once Gee is activated.
  
  
  
• Even if the Mets deal from their excess, the glut could remain, with Matz pushing hard from below and Montero coming off the DL.
  
  
  
• Also yet to be seen is whether Terry Collins would be willing to use his starters out of the pen in the middle of their rest cycle, as some managers have done while using a six-man rotation.
  
  
  
• How long before a pitcher has a bad turn and the columnists blame the 6MR?
  
  
  
• And how about that dope Joel Sherman, preemptively criticizing the Mets for seeking to protect Matt Harvey, when "... The chances Harvey is pitching for the Mets in 2019 is what? Five percent?"

[Ceetar]

Sandy Alderson was not quoted as saying "Hey 29 other GMs, see? We're not desperate to trade Gee. We're going to use him. It's good for resting our young pitchers. You can't just give offer us crap and expect us to accept it."

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Someone will get traded (Gee or Niese), get hurt (Gee or Niese) or be too ineffective (Gee or Niese) to justify its existence for very long, but I don't believe it's intended to last very long. Like the Montero thing, 1 and done, have enough of them over the course of a season and you've banked some innings.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I'm in the really-short-term move that won't last long
resulting in total indifference to it camp.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Dan Warthen was quoted in the Daily News as saying that he expects it to last until August, but that seems really unlikely to me.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Dan Warthen was quoted in the Daily News as saying that he expects it to last until August, but that seems really unlikely to me.

So like, right after the trading deadline huh? Awfully coincidental.

[ashie62]

4 man rotation.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Moreso than I am by anything regarding the actual strategem, I'm heartened by the fact that we haven't yet seen an anonymous member of the organization speaking to Sherman or someone about how much the six-man smells like two, man. #Tightship

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think this is an early glimpse of the future of baseball. I predict that before the 2020's are done, most if not all teams will have a six-man rotation.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think this is an early glimpse of the future of baseball. I predict that before the 2020's are done, most if not all teams will have a six-man rotation.

Going to need a LOT more pitchers to stay healthy for that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

True, but each pitcher will be getting more rest and pitching fewer innings.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: True, but each pitcher will be getting more rest and pitching fewer innings.

Which doesn't really prevent them from getting injured, beyond that the less you pitch the less opportunity you have to hurt yourself.

It could certainly happen..that's how they do it in Japan right?

Hmm, if MLB could float that idea, it'd be a good way to boost offense again too.

[Edgy MD]

It's a little more than that. It's not merely that the less you pitch, the less opportunity you have to hurt yourself, it's also that the less you pitch, the less compound damage you accumulate, thanks to your one extra day of rest and healing between starts.

[Fman99]

Joel Sherman should hang himself with a noose made out of flaccid dicks.

[Frayed Knot]

-- I've already heard this discussed in 'wave of the future' terms but I think that's a bit premature. Maybe one day 5-man rotations will seem as antiquated as the 4-man does today, but I don't think those days are quite around the corner yet.

-- I'm predicting this doesn't last more than three or four times through. Someone will get hurt or suck and a trade has got to happen at some point. Colon's hot start seems to have taken him off the trade block (in people's minds anyway) after being at the head of it virtually from the moment he was signed (Francesa was campaigning for him to be re-signed for next year ... good influence on the young guys, etc.) but he'd still be attractive to some pennant/WC dreaming team.

-- The Nats had no problem relegating Tanner Roark to the pen even coming on the heels of his 15-10/2.85 season in 2014 (a better season than either Strasberg or Gonzalez). But now Fister in on the shelf so he slides right back into the rotation and pitched quite well his first time out. It can be done.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Fman99 wrote: Joel Sherman should hang himself with a noose made out of flaccid dicks.

Where would he get such a thing?

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fman99 wrote: Joel Sherman should hang himself with a noose made out of flaccid dicks. Where would he get such a thing?

There's an app for that.

[MFS62]

Actually, he already does. Have you checked his Facebook page recently? And he seems to be enjoying it. But they must be MFY dicks, because it looks like he needed more than 200 of them to make a noose.

Later

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: -- I'm predicting this doesn't last more than three or four times through.

Maybe not, but right now, they may be closer to eight than they are to five.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm fine with it for a little while. Weakest link goes to the bullpen. In any case, there's no way this persists past the trade deadline. It's to showcase all three of Niese, Gee and Colon, hopefully enticing someone to make a trade.

Preferably they trade two of the three, making room for Matz in a five-man rotation.

[seawolf17]

Does it help us win baseball games? Then I'm all for it. Let's see what happens.

[Ceetar]

seawolf17 wrote: Does it help us win baseball games? Then I'm all for it. Let's see what happens.

well at the moment we're trading a few Harvey and deGrom starts for more Gee.

[batmagadanleadoff]

From the Department of In the Future:

The Major League roster isn't big enough to accommodate this idea, but the most efficient way to use a pitching staff might be to ditch the whole starting pitcher concept and instead, have a handful of pitchers, each pitching no more than three innings, pitch each game. The pitching staff would essentially be comprised entirely of relief pitchers -- and all pitchers would be groomed for a reliever's workload. The game is trending that way, but again, roster-size limitations are an obstacle to this idea. All pitchers, from the stars to especially the fringe pitchers, are less efficient with each incremental trip through the opponent's lineup. In a relief staff, pitchers wouldn't have to pace themselves to pitch six or even more innings a game, and the batters would rarely see the same pitcher twice in the same game.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ceetar wrote: seawolf17 wrote: Does it help us win baseball games? Then I'm all for it. Let's see what happens. well at the moment we're trading a few Harvey and deGrom starts for more Gee.

That's part of the idea. They want Harvey and deGrom to start fewer games over the next couple of months so that they're more fresh for the last stage of the pennant race and the playoffs.

The potential downside is that the fewer starts from the better pitchers might leave the Mets less well positioned for the final stretch.

[Zvon]

Lefty Specialist wrote: I'm fine with it for a little while. Weakest link goes to the bullpen. In any case, there's no way this persists past the trade deadline. It's to showcase all three of Niese, Gee and Colon, hopefully enticing someone to make a trade. Preferably they trade two of the three, making room for Matz in a five-man rotation.

How about we stick Gee in the pen, call up Matz & stay with the 6-man rotation. One of the NY papers mentioned this and I'd love to see Matz up.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Mets can get away with this for now so long as their so-called abundance of pitching isn't all major-league ready, whether because of injuries (Wheeler, Montero) ripeness (Matz, so they say), or something else. Sooner or later though, something's gonna give. A team can't hoard ten major-league ready starting pitchers, can it?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Ceetar]

From the Department of In the Future: The Major League roster isn't big enough to accommodate this idea, but the most efficient way to use a pitching staff might be to ditch the whole starting pitcher concept and instead, have a handful of pitchers, each pitching no more than three innings, pitch each game. The pitching staff would essentially be comprised entirely of relief pitchers -- and all pitchers would be groomed for a reliever's workload. The game is trending that way, but again, roster-size limitations are an obstacle to this idea. All pitchers, from the stars to especially the fringe pitchers, are less efficient with each incremental trip through the opponent's lineup. In a relief staff, pitchers wouldn't have to pace themselves to pitch six or even more innings a game, and the batters would rarely see the same pitcher twice in the same game.

Or, to mitigate the need to use the shorter bench as much, DH.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The argument for keeping Gee as part of the six-man rotation, I think, is that if he does well he has more trade value than he would if he was doing occasional long relief. If he does in fact get traded, then they can go back to a five-man, or replace him with Matz in the six-man. (This all assumes, of course, that no one drops from the rotation due to injury or ineffectiveness.)

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

I've had a crazy idea for some time that I call the "Double Rotation" where a team would have 10 pitchers and rank them on their effectiveness over a number of innings so that a pitcher who is highly effective for 7+ innings (what we would now call an ace) would be ranked #1 and a pitcher highly effective for 1-2 innings (what we now call a closer) would be ranked #10, and various lengths of effectiveness would Then they would be paired together 1/10, 2/9, 3/8, 4/7, and 5/6. Instead of having starters and relievers, the pair of pitchers would each expect to pitch every five days for the number of innings they've deemed to be effective. A manager would want to tinker with this to pair up righties & lefties where possible. The advantage is that a team can seek out the best pitching possible without giving thoughts to starters and relievers and make sure they all consistently get work. There are of course many disadvantages, but you know those already. Anyhow, thanks for tuning in to MWP's Crazy Ideas.

[Lefty Specialist]

I just don't think a 6-man rotation is viable over the long term. It leaves you with either a short bench or a short bullpen.