Murph & the Gays

[Edgy MD]

I don't think he's publicly thumbing his nose about anything. I mean, I think he said in his own way that he supported the Mets effort and he welcomed Bean's visit.

[TransMonk]

Frayed Knot wrote: I think that's reading WAY too much into this.

I hope so.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm pretty sure they asked 20 guys their opinion, and 19 of them said "Yeah, sure, no problem", which doesn't fill column inches. So when Murph gave his answer they had something to write. In fact, he's fairly well known as a devout Christian, so they may have sought him out for that reason, knowing that the others would probably give them mumbled 'whatever' answers.

Probably much ado about nothing, though.

[metirish]

[Edgy MD]

Speaking of costumes, we might go a long way toward tolerance if we explicitly pulled the plug on hetero-establishment enforcement traditions like rookie hazing costumes and bullpen pink backpack guy.

[Vic Sage]

I was listening to some sports talk on this and its very frustrating to hear some fans responding to Murphy's kind of ignorance with "well, its what he believes; no big deal. I've heard worse. It's not really that offensive."

Sexual orientation is not a "lifestyle", Murph. This is a known fact at this point of the 21st century. Just like gender, race, and ethnic background, orientation is a fundamental and irrevocable part of who a person is when they are born, over which that person had no choice. But, ironically, to publicly condemn someone's nature IS in fact a "lifestyle choice". Religious and political views are philosophies that a person can choose to accept or cast aside. Even when a person is raised with those ideas, or live in a community where those ideas are prevalent, it is still a matter of personal choice to maintain them as your own. And it is a choice that can be harmful to others in the world, so a person should be held accountable for their espoused philosophies... not by governments, but by the society at large. In the marketplace of ideas, not all ideas are created equal. And the answer to bad speech is more speech, not silence in the hope that it'll just go away, or minimizing or mollifying destructive ignorance in order to just get on with our lives.

It is bigotry to judge someone based on their intrinsic nature, and prejudice to think that all people with this or that nature are of equivalent character. It is neither of those things to judge people on what they actually say and do. It is not "bigotry" to condemn philosophies that condemn the natures of others.

But of course, that's just my philosophy.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Guest

[metirish]

True, and slapping each other on arses doesn't help the cause...

[MFS62]

Lefty Specialist wrote: 'Tongue firmly in cheek' is a turn of phrase you might not want to use in this context.

I just remembered why I first told you about this place. LOL!

Later

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Daniel is speaking tonight on the News
Expressing Christian ideals and strong anti-gay baseball views
Oh and, I can see Daniel condem the lifestyle
But look at Daniel; he is show-er-ing with guys

[MFS62]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Daniel is speaking tonight on the News Expressing Christian ideals and strong anti-gay baseball views Oh and, I can see Daniel condem the lifestyle But look at Daniel; he is show-er-ing with guys

And he is clinging to that bar of soap for dear life.

Later

[seawolf17]

I'm not upset about any of this, outside of the faux outrage. Most athletes won't even talk about it; at least he's talking about it. You can't realistically expect someone who thinks the Bible is fact to be logical about gay rights, but you CAN expect them to be decent human beings. And Murphy strikes me as a decent human being who just isn't too bright. But he plays baseball for a living, so we forgive his SAT scores.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

seawolf17 wrote: I'm not upset about any of this, outside of the faux outrage. Most athletes won't even talk about it; at least he's talking about it. You can't realistically expect someone who thinks the Bible is fact to be logical about gay rights, but you CAN expect them to be decent human beings. And Murphy strikes me as a decent human being who just isn't too bright. But he plays baseball for a living, so we forgive his SAT scores.

Are you implying that people who believe the Bible to be based in fact are illogical or aren't too bright?

[seawolf17]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I'm not upset about any of this, outside of the faux outrage. Most athletes won't even talk about it; at least he's talking about it. You can't realistically expect someone who thinks the Bible is fact to be logical about gay rights, but you CAN expect them to be decent human beings. And Murphy strikes me as a decent human being who just isn't too bright. But he plays baseball for a living, so we forgive his SAT scores. Are you implying that people who believe the Bible to be based in fact are illogical or aren't too bright?

Frig. I try so hard to stay out of battles here. "Illogical" is the answer to your question, I guess. One of the smartest guys I know -- one of my old college roommates -- is also the most Bibley guy I know.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

seawolf17 wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I'm not upset about any of this, outside of the faux outrage. Most athletes won't even talk about it; at least he's talking about it. You can't realistically expect someone who thinks the Bible is fact to be logical about gay rights, but you CAN expect them to be decent human beings. And Murphy strikes me as a decent human being who just isn't too bright. But he plays baseball for a living, so we forgive his SAT scores. Are you implying that people who believe the Bible to be based in fact are illogical or aren't too bright? Frig. I try so hard to stay out of battles here. "Illogical" is the answer to your question, I guess. One of the smartest guys I know -- one of my old college roommates -- is also the most Bibley guy I know.

Apologies on my end.

I was a little clumsy in trying to make my point, which goes back to the original point about why I think Murphy is in for a rough summer. In our very PC society, is seems the one group that the media has declared fair game for abuse is Christians, who are frequently depicted as rubes or nuts or both. Think back to the abuse Tim Tebow got. Can you see that happening to an athlete of another faith who is open about what he believes?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Guest

[ashie62]

Brokeback secondbasemen?

[MFS62]

WFAN Sports Radio @WFAN660 A #Mets spokesman has said that Daniel Murphy will no longer be discussing the Billy Bean issue with reporters. http://cbsloc.al/17PXa8E #NYM 11:48 AM - 4 Mar 2015

Later

[Edgy MD]

There's a Billy Bean issue?

Great, Mets, you've created a Billy Bean issue.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Oh, I have very little doubt that Murph thought he was saying something kind and welcoming and understanding. That's the issue, for me. (I'm not in favor of any sanction here, naturally... it's just a disappointing reminder of where we stand, societally, and where the guys for whom we root tend to be on this and other related issues.)

And I'll bite-- I have no doubts about the processing abilities and/or mental faculties of Christians, of course. I do have doubts about the processing abilities and/or mental faculties of people who think the Bible is fact, chronicled by a single author/small group of them. Murphy appears to belong to a Bible-literalist sect, so... yeah, it's not entirely unexpected.

I'll go a little further: drop-the-soap-type jokes are dumb and unfunny, on the level of don't-trust-anything-that-bleeds-for-4-days-and-doesn't-die humor, and part of the problem.

[Guest sharpie]

I was a little clumsy in trying to make my point, which goes back to the original point about why I think Murphy is in for a rough summer. In our very PC society, is seems the one group that the media has declared fair game for abuse is Christians, who are frequently depicted as rubes or nuts or both. Think back to the abuse Tim Tebow got. Can you see that happening to an athlete of another faith who is open about what he believes?

I think it is actually Muslims that are more "fair game" for abuse than Christians who, basically, run everything. Kind of like when rich people cry "class warfare" when income inequality is invoked.

[Guest themetfairy]

Perhaps Murphy has never really had to deal with gay people before this, and the incident will start a dialogue that will make him less ignorant about them and their "lifestyle".

At least that's my hope.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Why would we assume Murphy to be a Biblical literalist?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

sharpie wrote: I was a little clumsy in trying to make my point, which goes back to the original point about why I think Murphy is in for a rough summer. In our very PC society, is seems the one group that the media has declared fair game for abuse is Christians, who are frequently depicted as rubes or nuts or both. Think back to the abuse Tim Tebow got. Can you see that happening to an athlete of another faith who is open about what he believes? I think it is actually Muslims that are more "fair game" for abuse than Christians who, basically, run everything. Kind of like when rich people cry "class warfare" when income inequality is invoked.

I would respectfully disagree on all your points. But i think we're steering afar from the point of the thread. Partly my fault. Apologies.

[Guest sharpie]

I would respectfully disagree on all your points. But i think we're steering afar from the point of the thread. Partly my fault. Apologies.

And I would respectfully agree that we have veered far off of the point of the thread. Apology accepted and echoed.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy MD wrote: Why would we assume Murphy to be a Biblical literalist?

Whenever he speaks of his faith, it tends to be larded with a LOT of born-again/fundamentalist dog-whistle language. I may be mistaken on this, but I really don't think I am.

[Edgy MD]

There's certainly a lot o' born again folks who don't think take the science on the age of world from the Bible. None of the ones I know do.

[G-Fafif]

Billy Bean responds.

When I took this job at MLB, I knew it was going to take time for many to embrace my message of inclusion. Expecting everyone to be supportive right away is simply not realistic. If you asked anyone who has competed in high-level men's professional sports, I believe they would agree with me. This doesn't change the way I go about my business, or my belief in what I am doing, but it's reality. After reading his comments, I appreciate that Daniel spoke his truth. I really do. I was visiting his team, and a reporter asked his opinion about me. He was brave to share his feelings, and it made me want to work harder and be a better example that someday might allow him to view things from my perspective, if only for just a moment. I respect him, and I want everyone to know that he was respectful of me. We have baseball in common, and for now, that might be the only thing. But it's a start. The silver lining in his comments are that he would be open to investing in a relationship with a teammate, even if he "disagrees" with the lifestyle. It may not be perfect, but I do see him making an effort to reconcile his religious beliefs with his interpretation of the word lifestyle. It took me 32 years to fully accept my sexual orientation, so it would be hypocritical of me to not be patient with others. Inclusion means everyone, plain and simple. Daniel is part of that group. A Major League clubhouse is now one of the most diverse places in sports. It wasn't always that way, but we can thank No. 42 for that. So in his honor, with a little patience, compassion and hard work, we'll get there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

sharpie wrote: I would respectfully disagree on all your points. But i think we're steering afar from the point of the thread. Partly my fault. Apologies. And I would respectfully agree that we have veered far off of the point of the thread. Apology accepted and echoed.

The point of this thread is Elton John song parodies. Get to work.

[Edgy MD]

G-Fafif wrote: Billy Bean responds. When I took this job at MLB, I knew it was going to take time for many to embrace my message of inclusion. Expecting everyone to be supportive right away is simply not realistic. If you asked anyone who has competed in high-level men's professional sports, I believe they would agree with me. This doesn't change the way I go about my business, or my belief in what I am doing, but it's reality. After reading his comments, I appreciate that Daniel spoke his truth. I really do. I was visiting his team, and a reporter asked his opinion about me. He was brave to share his feelings, and it made me want to work harder and be a better example that someday might allow him to view things from my perspective, if only for just a moment. I respect him, and I want everyone to know that he was respectful of me. We have baseball in common, and for now, that might be the only thing. But it's a start. The silver lining in his comments are that he would be open to investing in a relationship with a teammate, even if he "disagrees" with the lifestyle. It may not be perfect, but I do see him making an effort to reconcile his religious beliefs with his interpretation of the word lifestyle. It took me 32 years to fully accept my sexual orientation, so it would be hypocritical of me to not be patient with others. Inclusion means everyone, plain and simple. Daniel is part of that group. A Major League clubhouse is now one of the most diverse places in sports. It wasn't always that way, but we can thank No. 42 for that. So in his honor, with a little patience, compassion and hard work, we'll get there.

He'll never make it in radio with that attitude.

[stevejrogers]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: sharpie wrote: I would respectfully disagree on all your points. But i think we're steering afar from the point of the thread. Partly my fault. Apologies. And I would respectfully agree that we have veered far off of the point of the thread. Apology accepted and echoed. The point of this thread is Elton John song parodies. Get to work.

Hmmm...

So goodbye Citi brick road...

[Lefty Specialist]

Billy seems just a mite condescending there. I don't agree with Murphy at all, but there's a bit of the 'if he just grows up a bit he'll get it' tone to those comments.

Dunno. Maybe reading too much into it. Wish this would all go away.