Strike-aversary

[Edgy MD]

Are there any remaining players who participated in the 1994 strike? I don't think there are.

If minor league players who were on the 40-man MLB roster participated in the walkout (I don't honestly know), maybe Giambi? LaTroy Hawkins?

[Gwreck]

Alex Rodriguez was in the majors in 1994 but was sent to the minors in advance of the strike.

[seawolf17]

LaTroy Hawkins and Jason Giambi both debuted in 1995. Nobody else goes back past that as far as I can tell.

[G-Fafif]

I pretty much loved the 1994 Mets in a way I hadn't love any Mets since 1990. Fondly remembering a mostly forgotten team and its truncated near-success here.

[Frayed Knot]

Among those who never played again after that day:
Rich Gossage - final game was on Aug 8
Jack Morris - Aug 7
Bo Jackson - Aug 10

[stevejrogers]

Frayed Knot wrote: Among those who never played again after that day: Rich Gossage - final game was on Aug 8

Gossage has the distinction of being an active MLBer during every labor related work stoppage.

[Edgy MD]

Pretty cool, I guess that Gossage finished his career as a teammate of Rodriguez. That's a nice little bridge to the past on the 1994 Mariners.

[Frayed Knot]

SteveJRogers wrote: Among those who never played again after that day: Rich Gossage - final game was on Aug 8 Gossage has the distinction of being an active MLBer during every labor related work stoppage.

So then clearly all the labor problems were his fault.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I would have guessed Nolan Ryan too, but I just checked and his last season was 1993.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frayed Knot wrote: Among those who never played again after that day: Rich Gossage - final game was on Aug 8 Jack Morris - Aug 7 Bo Jackson - Aug 10

Jeff McKnight

[seawolf17]

Would never have figured Goose lasted that long. If I had to guess, I would have said 1990 or thereabouts.

[Edgy MD]

Think of everything that changed after that.

[list:1wsqil4c][*:1wsqil4c]The power boom and the presumed juice boom[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the new stadium boom[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the empty-heartedness of faux nostalgia[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the extra tiers of playoffs (which would have happened in 1994 hadn't the strike occurred)[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the extreme widening of the market advantage due to the cable boom[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the Mets missing that boat due in part to being locked into a pre-boom cable contract[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the utter deterioration and destruction of the Expos and Francophonic baseball[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the unprecedented powers of Selig[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the unapologetic presentation of a commissioner coming out of the owner's club[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the threat of contraction[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the return of the independent minors[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the explosion of legacy ballplayers, with all-star teams crowded with second- and third-generation players[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the sinking feeling that among these legacy players were the only black American athletes still interested in playing baseball[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]despite the unprecendent offense, there still being three or four pitchers who could make people look as stupid as Bob Gibson did in 1968[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]thin-handled bats and ballooning strikeout numbers[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the weirdness of baseball's popularity growing by any measure, with the paradoxical growing feeling and general attitude that its relevancy was hopelessly waning[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]the weird boom in the card market where everybody in America suddenly had a nephew who religiously collected cards, keeping them pristine in their cellophane binders, but who had no interest in actual baseball[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]'roid hearings[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]pontifications about roids and baseball ruining America, even though you knew most every other game was as filthy or filthier --- sometimes far filthier (hello, wrestling)[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]failed prosecution of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]having to explain to people over and over again, no, you really don't take any joy from the Yankees' run of success, and no, you don't in any way feel you're being stingy[/*:m:1wsqil4c]
[*:1wsqil4c]but hey, artificial turf disappearing from every big league stadium but appearing at every high school, evolving over the years from the luxury that only big league teams could have to the luxury only big league teams could afford not to have.[/*:m:1wsqil4c][/list:u:1wsqil4c]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Mets Journal with Jonathan S. "52" Weissman

[G-Fafif]

1994 Mets Kevin McReynolds, Goose Gozzo, Jim Lindeman and Juan Castillo each played his final MLB game in the two weeks before the strike. Castillo only pitched in two games altogether, however.

[Edgy MD]

Lost window of opportunity for Castillo. Not that he would have made it through, but what a lousy break.

Tim Bogar closed out the season and went into that strike with an 0-7. Ouch.

[Zvon]

This strike changed my entire outlook on baseball and for me the game hasn't been the same since. Or, let me put it this way, my strong feelings for the game changed and have remained that way. Not in relation to the game, which I love on any level, but to major league baseball. I've worked my way back to an extent (it never effected my love of the Mets, but I used to be much more involved in baseball as a whole) but the resentment still lingers. It's not the strike itself that pissed me off. Hey, do what you gotta do. But no World Series? Inexcusable.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The strike-aversary reminds me its my friend's 20th wedding anniversary, which took place the the same week.

I didn't pay any attention to baseball in 1995 and for much of 1996, but the '97 Mets romanced me back in.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Zvon wrote: This strike changed my entire outlook on baseball and for me the game hasn't been the same since. Or, let me put it this way, my strong feelings for the game changed and have remained that way. Not in relation to the game, which I love on any level, but to major league baseball. I've worked my way back to an extent (it never effected my love of the Mets, but I used to be much more involved in baseball as a whole) but the resentment still lingers. It's not the strike itself that pissed me off. Hey, do what you gotta do. But no World Series? Inexcusable.

That's me too, except I don't feel resentment, just detachment. Where I used to be a baseball fan, now I'm strictly a Mets fan. I tried watching the 1995 World Series and it didn't hold me interest. Since then, I've only watched one World Series, in 2000. And I haven't seen a single pitch of a post-season game since Carlos Beltran looked at strike three in 2006.

[Zvon]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This strike changed my entire outlook on baseball and for me the game hasn't been the same since. Or, let me put it this way, my strong feelings for the game changed and have remained that way. Not in relation to the game, which I love on any level, but to major league baseball. I've worked my way back to an extent (it never effected my love of the Mets, but I used to be much more involved in baseball as a whole) but the resentment still lingers. It's not the strike itself that pissed me off. Hey, do what you gotta do. But no World Series? Inexcusable. That's me too, except I don't feel resentment, just detachment.

Yes, that too, even more so than resentment. It was like : I'm no longer going to give them my time.

[Edgy MD]

But it really depends on who them is. A lot of the resentment was focused on the players. I stood by them, even though I resent that the MLBPA has never supported the umpires' union nor attempts by minor league players to unionize. They were right to walk and to hold out, and any cracks in the unfathomable position that MLB owners had and still largely have was a good thing, from my perspective.

Think of all the looking-in-from-the-outside HoF cases of baseball players whose careers included both the 1981 strike and the 1994 one --- Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Jack Morris, Fernando Valenzuela. The labor movement might have cost them an impressive dose of historical authority.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: But it really depends on who them is. A lot of the resentment was focused on the players. I stood by them, even though I resent that the MLBPA has never supported the umpires' union nor attempts by minor league players to unionize. They were right to walk and to hold out, and any cracks in the unfathomable position that MLB owners had and still largely have was a good thing, from my perspective. Think of all the looking-in-from-the-outside HoF cases of baseball players whose careers included both the 1981 strike and the 1994 one --- Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Jack Morris, Fernando Valenzuela. The labor movement might have cost them an impressive dose of historical authority.

For me "them" was the players and the owners. It was MLB in general. I started going to minor league games down here (The Surf) after a few years, because I did miss the game.

[stevejrogers]

Think of all the looking-in-from-the-outside HoF cases of baseball players whose careers included both the 1981 strike and the 1994 one --- Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Jack Morris, Fernando Valenzuela. The labor movement might have cost them an impressive dose of historical authority.

Incidentally, Morris and Gossage were the only members of the 2000 "first time on the ballot" guys to stay on the ballot for future HOF considerations:

Jeff Reardon 4.8% 24 votes
Willie Wilson 2.0% 10 votes
Rick Sutcliffe 1.8% 9 votes
Kent Hrbek 1% 5 votes
Charlie Hough 4 votes
2 votes each for Dave Henderson and Steve Sax
1 vote each for Bruce Hurst, Bob Welch, Lonnie Smith and Bill Gullickson and finally Hubie Brooks was on the ballot and garnered not a single darn vote.

Gullickson's lone vote from a NYC based writer with whom Gullickson shared a joint with while in college. True story.

Just as another FYI, that year saw Carlton Fisk on his second (getting edged out from the super class of 1999 of Ryan, Yount and Brett) and Tony Perez on his 9th get elected. Gossage's placement was good for 6th, and all ahead of him (Jim Rice, Gary Carter and Bruce Sutter) eventually got in. Morris came in at 11th, behind Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Jim Kaat and Dale Murphy, all still on the outside, looking in.

[Frayed Knot]

Coincidentally to this being Strike-aversary week, the owners start meeting today in advance of an expected vote tomorrow to select Bud Selig's replacement. Current MLB COO Rob Manfred, Red Sox chairman Tom Werner, and MLB executive vice president of business Tim Brosnan are the leading candidates. Manfred is Selig's choice, and is considered to be the front-runner and the one most likely to continue along the current direction of the late Selig regime.
And while there probably isn't enough opposition to make one of the others the winner, there may just be enough to prevent Manfred from getting the 23 of 30 vote minimum needed and force a stalemate. As usual, White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is said to be involved and if he could put together a big enough faction to oppose Manfred it would signal that there is at least a sizable minority of owners NOT all that happy with the current path and maybe instead hold out for someone who'll bring a more confrontational tact with the player's union.

[Edgy MD]

Werner: From the very inner-circle of the Friends of Bill.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Zvon wrote: This strike changed my entire outlook on baseball and for me the game hasn't been the same since. Or, let me put it this way, my strong feelings for the game changed and have remained that way. Not in relation to the game, which I love on any level, but to major league baseball. I've worked my way back to an extent (it never effected my love of the Mets, but I used to be much more involved in baseball as a whole) but the resentment still lingers. It's not the strike itself that pissed me off. Hey, do what you gotta do. But no World Series? Inexcusable. That's me too, except I don't feel resentment, just detachment. Where I used to be a baseball fan, now I'm strictly a Mets fan. I tried watching the 1995 World Series and it didn't hold me interest. Since then, I've only watched one World Series, in 2000. And I haven't seen a single pitch of a post-season game since Carlos Beltran looked at strike three in 2006.

Me too. Though I also blame a good deal of my lack of interest on the wild card slots also introduced that year. To my way of seeing things, it cheapened the title considerably. I hate to say this, but I think that baseball is a deeply flawed sport because of the amount of luck involved in determining the outcome of any game -- significantly more so than in any of the other major team sports I'm aware of. The way to counter this is to keep the # of playoff teams at a minimum -- otherwise the sport won't be rewarding excellence as strongly as it ought to. Of course, the powers of the game care about $$ more than anything else, and more playoff teams brings in more $$ -- so whenever it's $$ versus the purity of the game, or $$ versus anything -- well we all know which factor is going to override every other one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

See if you can match the corporate mug shot with the would-be Commish. No url peeking!

A


B


C

[Frayed Knot]

A = Werner
B = Manfred
C = The other guy

[seawolf17]

1) Manfred
2) Other guy
3) Werner

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ... I also blame a good deal of my lack of interest on the wild card slots also introduced that year. To my way of seeing things, it cheapened the title considerably. I hate to say this, but I think that baseball is a deeply flawed sport because of the amount of luck involved in determining the outcome of any game -- significantly more so than in any of the other major team sports I'm aware of. The way to counter this is to keep the # of playoff teams at a minimum -- otherwise the sport won't be rewarding excellence as strongly as it ought to. Of course, the powers of the game care about $$ more than anything else, and more playoff teams brings in more $$ -- so whenever it's $$ versus the purity of the game, or $$ versus anything -- well we all know which factor is going to override every other one.

The last NINE NFL seasons have produced more Super Bowl winners from the bottom of their playoff structure [Two 4th seeds, One 5th seed, Two 6th seeds = 5] than from the top half [Two 1st seeds, one 2nd seed, one 3rd seed = 4] and remember that those 5 & 6 seeds wouldn't even make the playoffs in MLB's 1995-2011 system.
Looked at another way, that's as many LAST seeds as first and 1/3 of the most recent 9 champions were somewhere in the 7th to 12th best team that season.
But, as usual, a trait which is cited as an asset in where football is concerned (PARITY!!! ... Oh those wacky playoffs) is treated as a negative in baseball (What a shitty sport, the best teams don't always win!)

I don't dispute your point about too many 'post-season' teams having a negative effect that's usually not discussed among playoff-happy leagues and the networks that flog them, only that this is neither unique to baseball nor, IMO, more pronounced. NHL hockey (if you're one who considers that a major sport) is MUCH more random come Stanley Cup tourney time. The NBA is probably less so (even as the playoffs are double the size and length) but that speaks more to the sizable gap between the top shelf teams and the also-rans that make up the back end of the 'non-lottery' gaggle. Roughly half of their playoff teams (and often more) in any given year have no chance to win and everyone knows it going in.

[Edgy MD]

Well, it's nearly unthinkable, but Duan was unabashed about suggesting that the way to crown the truly best team is to bag the post-season altogether. The team with the best record is your champ.