All-Star Break Boredom Poll - MLB Expansion

[metsmarathon]

nah, they should really float it. and hurry, too, before dubai gets in on the action.

[Edgy MD]

Want to expand to the Latin American world but fear instability and economic scarcity, there's always Costa Rica, where lots of Americans

Call themselves the Nahuatl.

[nymr83]

Valadius wrote: Surprised Austin and Orlando aren't on here. Irrespective of realignment, I'm inclined to move the A's to Sacramento (they have their AAA club there already) and expand to Austin and either Portland or Orlando.

Austin maybe, but does Florida really need another team? They've proven incapable of giving the Marlins much support, even now that they've built a palacial new stadium.

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Surprised Austin and Orlando aren't on here. Irrespective of realignment, I'm inclined to move the A's to Sacramento (they have their AAA club there already) and expand to Austin and either Portland or Orlando. Austin maybe, but does Florida really need another team? They've proven incapable of giving the Marlins much support, even now that they've built a palacial new stadium.

I wonder how Orlando could do just based on tourism though. 7:30 games..have Disney-admission/game-admission tickets deals? Have Mickey be the mascot?

[Edgy MD]

Norfolk/Tidewater/Virginia Beach = largest metropolitan area in the US without a big league sports franchise.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Looks like Las Vegas is a clear winner with Portland and Havana neck-in-neck for the second slot.

My view is that Portland is a clear expansion favorite: a large and growing city with a dense city center and strong civic pride that is already showing a lot of support for their MLS team. Plus they'd be natural rivals for the Mariners who I believe are currently the most isolated team in MLB.

I gave my other vote to Vancouver but think Monterrey, Montreal (not one vote, really?), Norfolk, and San Jose would also be good options.

[Vic Sage]

Edgy DC wrote: Norfolk/Tidewater/Virginia Beach = largest metropolitan area in the US without a big league sports franchise.

how far is that from DC?

[nymr83]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: I gave my other vote to Vancouver but think Monterrey, Montreal (not one vote, really?), Norfolk, and San Jose would also be good options.

Expos attendance and other problems are a strike against Montreal. Didn't they have trouble even finding an english-language radio station for a couple of years (or was it television?). Pass.

[MFS62]

Vic Sage wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Norfolk/Tidewater/Virginia Beach = largest metropolitan area in the US without a big league sports franchise. how far is that from DC?

Depends on if you mean as the crow flies or if you have to drive.
To drive to that area from DC, you first have to drive about 90 miles to Richmond, then turn East and go about another hour or two. So another 100 miles or so. But the hypotenuse of that triangle might be short enough to upset any territorial protection radius the Nats might have.

Later

[Edgy MD]

About 200 miles. Certainly further than New York to Philly.

[Benjamin Grimm]

With contraction on the table so recently, I don't think expansion is in the cards any time soon. I would say that it won't happen until and unless the Athletics find a new home. The conventional wisdom (with which I disagree) is that there are no markets that a team can move to, but I think this thread indicates otherwise.

I would think that Indianapolis, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Oregon could all easily support teams. If I could put the Athletics anywhere, I'd put them in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. It would be a return to their original roots, it would give the Phillies a financial pinch, and I'd have a local team that's not a division rival. Win-win-win!

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: About 200 miles. Certainly further than New York to Philly.

Atlantic City to Cififield 265
AC to Philly 39

I can only go to Citifield when I visit my brother in NY

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ashie62 wrote: About 200 miles. Certainly further than New York to Philly. Atlantic City to Cififield 265 AC to Philly 39

Philly to Queens, via I-95: 112

What I don't quite get, to be honest, is the A's-San Jose thing. Isn't that part of the A's turf, too? If the Mets decided to move to Brooklyn, they could do that w/o Yankee approval, no?

[Edgy MD]

There's a map at the commish's office with like "Menlo Park belongs to the Giants. but Fremont to the Athletics. San Jose belongs to the Giants, but Palo Alto to the Athletics."

It's stupid. Nothing belongs to nobody. How about that?

[nymr83]

Edgy DC wrote: There's a map at the commish's office with like "Menlo Park belongs to the Giants. but Fremont to the Athletics. San Jose belongs to the Giants, but Palo Alto to the Athletics." It's stupid. Nothing belongs to nobody. How about that?

The stadiums belong to the teams (even though they were usually paid for by the taxpayers), so you shouldn't be allowed to move inside another team's stadium.

I think its bad for the game to have constant movement and I think the owners, recognizing this, have made agreements not to move and even pay [crossout]bribe money[/crossout] revenue sharing to the teams stuck in the shittier markets as a result. But even though I think excessive movement is bad for the game, it should probably be allowed.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Nymr83 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: There's a map at the commish's office with like "Menlo Park belongs to the Giants. but Fremont to the Athletics. San Jose belongs to the Giants, but Palo Alto to the Athletics." It's stupid. Nothing belongs to nobody. How about that? The stadiums belong to the teams (even though they were usually paid for by the taxpayers), so you shouldn't be allowed to move inside another team's stadium. I think its bad for the game to have constant movement and I think the owners, recognizing this, have made agreements not to move and even pay [crossout]bribe money[/crossout] revenue sharing to the teams stuck in the shittier markets as a result. But even though I think excessive movement is bad for the game, it should probably be allowed.

Well, this goes back to the promotion/regulation model that allows the teams to stay in the same place but move into different level of competition. It's pretty much pure capitalist meritocracy that the teams play the best play at the highest level. And it can be a benefit to small-market teams I think as well. Can't compete in the big leagues? Just get relegated and be a big fish in a small pond while you rebuild and then see if you can come back up.

[Ceetar]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18886#.UKJkTf73n0w.twitter

Maury Brown weighs in on the subject with some research and ranking of 10 possible locations.

[Edgy MD]

If the silly, scared, and grossly monopolistic territorial rights rules were lifted, there would be an initial instability as organizations rushed to fill opportunities that should have been filled decades ago. This would soon settle down and an honorable stability would reign. This would be more true if the parallel reform of the emancipation of the minor leagues took place.

Even now the indy minors --- Eastern League, Northern League, ALPB, Can-Am --- should be flooding MLB markets and reminding them that they own nothing.

[metsmarathon]

i like the idea of a northern new jersey team. sussex county needs some damned baseball!

or is that too far north?

[Edgy MD]

A Northern New Jersey team, a Brooklyn team, a Long Island team, and possibly a Conncecticut team too.

Bad for the Mets and Yankees, and possibly the Red Sox, but good for just about the whole world.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I like that idea.

Here's the short version of the list from the article:

1. Northern New Jersey 2. Sacramento, CA 3. Portland, OR 4. Charlotte, NC 5. Las Vegas, NV 6. San Antonio, TX 7. Monterrey, Mexico 8. Montreal, Canada 9. San Juan, Puerto Rico 10. Norfolk, VA

There are other areas that host NFL teams that are not on the list. (I know, NFL and MLB are different in many ways, but it's at least a starting point.) I can think offhand of Indianapolis, Tennessee, Buffalo, and Jacksonville. Of those, I think Tennessee might be most promising.

Philadelphia could probably support a second team, perhaps in the Valley Forge area of the suburbs. How great would it be if the Athletics moved back to their roots?

[Edgy MD]

Great beyond great. And possibly the Athletics reclaiming old territory would be the first pebble moved to break the dam of territorial exclusivity.

I believe that the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area is the US metropolitan region with the largest population to be represented by no major league sports.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Can you imagine this paragraph written about any American city 10 years ago? 5 years ago?

While PGE Park could be used as an interim facility, it�s an exceptional longshot now that it has been converted into a soccer-only venue. Getting into PGE Park means getting around MLS, and given the immense popularity of soccer in Portland, the odds of that are exceptionally long.

[Ceetar]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Can you imagine this paragraph written about any American city 10 years ago? 5 years ago? While PGE Park could be used as an interim facility, it�s an exceptional longshot now that it has been converted into a soccer-only venue. Getting into PGE Park means getting around MLS, and given the immense popularity of soccer in Portland, the odds of that are exceptionally long.

yes.

[seawolf17]

Ceetar wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: Can you imagine this paragraph written about any American city 10 years ago? 5 years ago? While PGE Park could be used as an interim facility, it�s an exceptional longshot now that it has been converted into a soccer-only venue. Getting into PGE Park means getting around MLS, and given the immense popularity of soccer in Portland, the odds of that are exceptionally long. yes.

South American cities don't count.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I was surprised to see it written in 2012.

Portland, Oregon is full of rabid soccer fans? I had no idea.

[Ceetar]

seawolf17 wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: Can you imagine this paragraph written about any American city 10 years ago? 5 years ago? While PGE Park could be used as an interim facility, it�s an exceptional longshot now that it has been converted into a soccer-only venue. Getting into PGE Park means getting around MLS, and given the immense popularity of soccer in Portland, the odds of that are exceptionally long. yes. South American cities don't count.

People have been talking big about soccer for as long as I can remember. A converted soccer-only stadium and one city supposedly big on it doesn't seem all that shocking. I suspect it's extremely exaggerated too. Not that I was looking for it, but I was there 3 years ago and can't remember anything about soccer being there. I didn't know soccer was there.

Hell, you can find cities that are all up in arms about other second-tier sports like Nascar and high school football.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

And what would be the average attendance at a Portland soccer game?

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: And what would be the average attendance at a Portland soccer game?

looks like they sellout. 20,438.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I was surprised to see it written in 2012. Portland, Oregon is full of rabid soccer fans? I had no idea.

I saw the end of an MLS game in Portland while waiting for something else to come on, and not knowing what or where it was I assumed it had to be in Europe - the place was packed and the crowd was going insane.

Apparently the key to soccer's success in the US is finding cities with relatively high levels of rain, ennui and marijuana.