RA Deserves His Own Thread

[Ceetar]

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: The wind currents at Yankee Stadium that normally allow pop-flies to float over the fence instead make the knuckleball flutter like crazy... Except the game is at Citi

duh. *bonks self*

The gentle breeze from the flushing bay then. 1.20 ERA at home for Dickey. .783 WHIP.

After that night, Jeter's going to use Dickey as the excuse why he skips the All-Star Game this year.

[Chad ochoseis]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Dickey on pace for a [crossout]7.2[/crossout] 8.2 season WAR, [crossout]8th[/crossout] 5th best in franchise history. Rank Pitcher/Team WAR YEAR 1 Dwight Gooden 11.7 1985 2 Tom Seaver 9.5 1973 3 Tom Seaver 9.2 1971 4 Jon Matlack 8.6 1974 5 Tom Seaver 7.7 1975 6 Tom Seaver 7.6 1969 7 Tom Seaver 7.5 1968 8 Jerry Koosman 6.8 1968 9 Jon Matlack 6.7 1972 10 Jerry Koosman 6.7 1969

All pitchers. I don't know whether this shows that (a) pitchers are more valuable than position players, ( WAR is biased towards pitchers, or © the Mets have historically pitched, caught, and thrown better than they've hit.

OE - "Catched"? Did I really type "catched"???

batmagadanleadoff wrote: OE - Dickey the knuckleballer hasn't thrown a wild pitch all season.

Yay, catchers!

[Ceetar]

I blame defense WAR a bit for that.

[Edgy MD]

Pitchers are not more valuable, so much as (a) historic seasons by pitchers are more valueable than those for batters and/or ( we've hosted historic seasons by pitchers, but not by batters.

[metsmarathon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Dickey on pace for a 7.2 season WAR, 8th best in franchise history. Rank Pitcher/Team WAR YEAR 1 Dwight Gooden 11.7 1985 2 Tom Seaver 9.5 1973 3 Tom Seaver 9.2 1971 4 Jon Matlack 8.6 1974 5 Tom Seaver 7.7 1975 6 Tom Seaver 7.6 1969 7 Tom Seaver 7.5 1968 8 Jerry Koosman 6.8 1968 9 Jon Matlack 6.7 1972 10 Jerry Koosman 6.7 1969 Dickey on pace for a [crossout]7.2[/crossout] 8.2 season WAR, [crossout]8th[/crossout] 5th best in franchise history. Rank Pitcher/Team WAR YEAR 1 Dwight Gooden 11.7 1985 2 Tom Seaver 9.5 1973 3 Tom Seaver 9.2 1971 4 Jon Matlack 8.6 1974 5 Tom Seaver 7.7 1975 6 Tom Seaver 7.6 1969 7 Tom Seaver 7.5 1968 8 Jerry Koosman 6.8 1968 9 Jon Matlack 6.7 1972 10 Jerry Koosman 6.7 1969 Listened to yesterday's Mets/O's game on Baltimore radio. Pre-game Baltimore crew, recounting Dickey's 2nd 1-hitter, described RA's stuff as being absolutely filthy. OE - Dickey the knuckleballer hasn't thrown a wild pitch all season.

what's your data source? bb-ref has gooden at 11.9, and fangraphs has him at 9 WAR for pitching. each has him at an additional 1.1 WAR for offense. (isn't it at all frustrating that nobody sums these together in a conveniently located website?)

i assume this list to be only pitchers' WAR, a bb-ref has dwright's 2007 was an 8.1 WAR and beltran's '06 was an 8.0 WAR.

omitting hte hitting component of pitcher's value, bb-ref would tell you that hte top four seasons in mets history would be delivered by pitchers. the next three by hitters, and than alternating to round out the top ten.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I made those WAR charts two years ago for some CPF posts on the topic of best Mets pitcher WAR seasons. (source -- bbref) Maybe, bbref modified its formula since then, thus accounting for the discrepancies you discovered.

[MFS62]

Just heard Goose Gossage being interviewed by Michael Kay (yeah, I know).
They were talking about RA Dickey and the knuckleball. Goose said when he was a rookie, he would warm up Jack Fisher. I don't remember Jack being considered a "knuckleball pitcher". MAybe it was an occasional pitch or just something he worked on. Anyone have any memories of him throwing it as a Met?

Later

[metsmarathon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I made those WAR charts two years ago for some CPF posts on the topic of best Mets pitcher WAR seasons. (source -- bbref) Maybe, bbref modified its formula since then, thus accounting for the discrepancies you discovered.

fair enough. now go back and fix them.

i kid.

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: Just heard Goose Gossage being interviewed by Michael Kay (yeah, I know). They were talking about RA Dickey and the knuckleball. Goose said when he was a rookie, he would warm up Jack Fisher. I don't remember Jack being considered a "knuckleball pitcher". MAybe it was an occasional pitch or just something he worked on. Anyone have any memories of him throwing it as a Met?

No, but, as mentioned, probably half the pitchers in the majors (and more than a few of the position players) have a knuckleball that they screw around with on the sidelines throwing one to each other or to unsuspecting teammates. Gil Hodges was said to own a real good one, and it was Jose Canseco's faith in his that got him to talk his manager into letting him pitch in relief one day. The result was that he blew his arm out and spent a lengthy stay on the DL (back when going without his presence was still a bad thing).

The problem isn't in being able to throw one, it's locating it and being consistent enough to make a living with one, and that's why the staffs of the 30 teams features about one or so legit k-ballers per decade.

[ashie62]

This is the unofficial list of knucklers with Eddie Fisher 1959-1973

Goose might have been drunk..

http://oddball-mall.com/knuckleball/list.htm

[G-Fafif]

MFYs suddenly admit to passing on Dickey, according to professional idiot Wally Matthews.

After the 2009 season, when Dickey was being shopped on the free-agent market, the Yankees kicked the tires on the then-35-year-old journeyman -- and walked away.

Y'know that heartwarming story of the career Quadruple-A pitcher who couldn't get a break so he had to make his own and look at him now? Man, would we hate hearing about it if the tire-kicking had gone anywhere.

[Ceetar]

G-Fafif wrote: MFYs suddenly admit to passing on Dickey, according to professional idiot Wally Matthews. After the 2009 season, when Dickey was being shopped on the free-agent market, the Yankees kicked the tires on the then-35-year-old journeyman -- and walked away. Y'know that heartwarming story of the career Quadruple-A pitcher who couldn't get a break so he had to make his own and look at him now? Man, would we hate hearing about it if the tire-kicking had gone anywhere.

I propose full excerpts of professional idiots, so I don't have to give them page hits.

Matthews is on record as basically calling the knuckleball worse than steroids. I'm really really hoping he pipes up with more of that.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

CBS New York has a neat photo gallery showing R.A. through the years. Seems funny to see him unbearded. I didn't know he was on an Olympic team.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2012/06/19/r-a-dickey-through-the-years/

[nymr83]

Ceetar wrote: I propose full excerpts of professional idiots, so I don't have to give them page hits. Matthews is on record as basically calling the knuckleball worse than steroids. I'm really really hoping he pipes up with more of that.

I propose not polluting the forum with their articles, just paste the dumbest line (no, not "written by Matthews") and assume we don't really want to read it anyway.

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: CBS New York has a neat photo gallery showing R.A. through the years. Seems funny to see him unbearded. I didn't know he was on an Olympic team. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2012/06/19/r-a-dickey-through-the-years/

yup, he rather lamenting being cut to the minors in 2010 and having to shave his beard.

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I propose full excerpts of professional idiots, so I don't have to give them page hits. Matthews is on record as basically calling the knuckleball worse than steroids. I'm really really hoping he pipes up with more of that. I propose not polluting the forum with their articles, just paste the dumbest line (no, not "written by Matthews") and assume we don't really want to read it anyway.

That works too.

[batmagadanleadoff]

June, 2012 NL Pitcher of the Month candidates (min. 20 IP)

[batmagadanleadoff]

RA's league leading categories:

h



RA ahead by six lengths in ESPN's Cy Predictor

[seawolf17]

Dempster and Cain also leading my suddenly revitalized fantasy team as well; although Dempster is now on the DL, so it's Dickey's to lose.

[batmagadanleadoff]

One-Hit Wonder: A Look at the Physics behind Dickey�s Knuckleball

By Evelyn Lamb | June 24, 2012 |

R. A. Dickey is one of the hottest topics in Major League Baseball right now. This right-handed Mets pitcher�s two most recent outings have been one-hitters, he has a league-leading 11�1 win-loss record, and he�s one of the league�s only knuckleballers. What makes this pitch so hard to hit? A knuckleball is famously difficult to throw, hit and catch because of its erratic behavior. It seems to fly through the air with no spin and then break suddenly in any direction. The ball�s seams are key to this behavior. Not just tools to keep the leather together or leave impressive welts when you �catch� a ball with your shin, the seams affect the airflow around the ball. Air drags along the smooth parts of a baseball surface, but the seams produce little vortices that allow air to travel more quickly over them. A fastball rotates 16 or 17 times between the pitcher and batter, and the rapid rotation means that the airflow turbulence caused by the seams is pretty evenly spread over the whole ball and the entire trajectory of the throw, so it travels steadily. On the other hand, a knuckleball rotates only one half to one time on its way to the batter, so the airflow turbulence stays on one side of the ball for a while before slowly moving to the other. The ball drifts in the direction of the leading seam, which slowly moves from one side to the other. Slow is, of course, relative when it comes to pitching. Most knuckleballs poke along at a zesty 65 to 70 miles per hour, although Dickey�s have averaged 77 mph this season. By comparison, fastballs in the majors average about 90 mph. Dickey�s speed may be part of the secret to his success, especially when it comes to his unusually high strikeout percentage. Higher speeds mean less erratic movement, which helps him stay in the strike zone. Of course, it�s a balancing act because the erratic movement is what makes the knuckleball so hard to hit in the first place. Whatever his secret, Dickey is flying high right now, along with his knuckleball. He�s won the last six games he�s pitched. Tonight we�ll see if he can make it seven.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/06/24/one-hit-wonder-dickeys-knuckleball/
About the Author: Evelyn is an AAAS mass media fellow with Scientific American for the summer of

[batmagadanleadoff]

RA's succeeding because of, among other reasons, his uncanny ability to throw strikes when behind 1-0 or 2-0. When he's behind, which is almost never, RA relies on his faster knuckler, which has less movement, and is thus easier to control, but just as hard to hit.

Pitch location: knuckler at 0-2


Pitch location: knuckler at 1-2


Pitch location: knuckler at 1-0


Pitch location: knuckler at 2-0


The Dominant R.A. Dickey
Posted by Dustin Parkes under General on Jun 19, 2012

R.A. Dickey has been incredible for the New York Mets. Armed with a knuckleball that dances like Fred Astaire, Dickey made the Baltimore Orioles looks absolutely foolish last night, pitching his second straight one-hitter shutout as part of his team�s 5-0 victory. The Dickster struck out a career-high baker�s dozen while walking just two batters and inducing 17 swinging strikes. Dickey is the first pitcher to throw back-to-back one-hitters since a certain fella with the Toronto Blue Jays named Dave Stieb did it back in 1988. He�s the first National League pitcher to do it since Jim Tobin of the Boston Braves back in 1944. Dickey�s amazingness extends beyond just his last couple of starts, too. Over his last five starts, he hasn�t allowed a single earned run, while striking out 52 and walking five of the 142 batters he�s faced over 41 2/3 innings. Unsurprisingly, R.A. Dickey currently leads the National League in wins, ERA, strikeouts, WHIP, shutouts and complete games. But that�s not the whole story. He also leads all Major League starters in swinging strikes from opponents, and in the number of swings on his pitches outside of the zone. Considering his use of the knuckleball, that�s hardly surprising, but what is surprising is the velocity, and the control over the velocity that Dickey exerts. When most of us think of knuckleballs, we think of Tim Wakefield�s slow drifter. However, Wakefield was never able to collect as many swinging strikes or induce as many swings at pitches outside of the strike zone. And that�s because Dickey�s knuckler is not Wakefield�s. It comes at hitters more than ten miles per hour faster at a speed that resembles Jamie Moyer�s best fastball. It moves a little less, but leaves the batter with even less time to have any clue as to what�s going on. And, as BrooksBaseball.net shows us, Dickey controls the velocity, pitching harder knucklers with less movement in two strike situations. When most of us think of a knuckleball, we tend to imagine that it has a life of its own, and could float anywhere after it leaves the pitcher�s hand. And while there�s some truth to the lack of pinpoint control a knuckleballer has with his pitch, Dickey has shown a tremendous ability to exert control, not only over the velocity of his knuckleball, but also location. We can see this by comparing location charts for the knuckleball in certain count situations. For example, Dickey often throws those higher velocity knuckle balls up in the zone when he has two strikes and a pitch or two to work with, much like we�d see a pitcher with a high velocity fastball do in a similar situation. This suggests to me that Dickey is indeed exerting control over his knuckleball, and may have in fact found something of a sweet spot in terms of movement and velocity that allows him to do things like this: in baseball, we�re often presented with such an overwhelming amount of data from past events, that unique moments are something of a rarity. However, Dickey�s dominance with a knuckleball is something new to baseball, and it�s incredibly exciting to witness. No pitcher, armed mainly with a knuckleball has been able to do what Dickey has done to date, and it�s not at all unreasonable to think that if he can continue this, he�ll become the first primary knuckleballer to win a Cy Young award.

http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/06/19/the-dominant-r-a-dickey/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thescore%2Fgettingblanked+%28Getting+Blanked+%28Blog%29%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

[batmagadanleadoff]

R.A. Dickey�s Velocity
by Eno Sarris - June 21, 2012

Esteemed colleagues Dave Cameron and Carson Cistulli are correct � it�s about location and movement when it comes to R.A. Dickey�s excellent work so far this year. Certainly, a knuckleball pitcher isn�t blowing it by the batters he faces. That doesn�t mean that velocity doesn�t have a lot to do with why Dickey�s been good this year � and why he might be able to keep it up. There have been many knuckleball pitchers before, but none has ever finished higher than third in the Cy Young voting before. Dickey could break that glass ceiling this year � and it might be because of something he does differently from all the knuckleballers that came before him. R.A. Dickey throws his knuckleball fast. He throws some his knuckleballs (79+ mph) faster than Tim Wakefield threw his fastball (74.1 mph career average). It�s a little strange that the hardest-throwing knuckleball pitcher of this era has found the most success, though. As our favorite physics professor Alan Nathan found, more velocity means less movement for the knuckleball: Whereas Wakefield throws at a very consistent 66-67 mph, Dickey throw at two speeds: one in the 73-75 mph range, the other in the 75-80 mph range. The plot shows that the movement on the knuckleball is as random in magnitude as it is in direction. Moreover, the maximum movement appears to decrease with increasing speed. Whet Moser at ChicagoMag.com re-published the following plot in which Nathan showed the phenomenon graphically. What might be most amazing about R.A. Dickey is that he has as many as three distinct knuckleballs, though. Look at this plot of his knuckleball velocities from 2010, and you start to see some clusters. There�s at least two distinct groupings � one around 73-74 mph, and one around 77-78 mph � but there might even be a third. Look at how many knuckleballs he throws above 80 mph. That�s pretty different from 77 mph. And, as Dickey has evolved, those velocity clusters have changed. Check out 2011: Now the three clusters are more defined. Slow-mo at 74 mph, regular speed at 77 mph, and a fast knuckler around 79 mph. Of course, he still threw the odd super-slow-mo knucklers, but you can see where he settled in most days. You might notice something about the general graph in 2011, though. Try looking at this year�s graph, and the difference should come into focus. It really looks like R.A Dickey is throwing his knuckleball faster this year. Or, to say it more correctly, it looks like R.A. Dickey is favoring his fast knuckler more this year. His PITCHf/x page tells us his average knuckler has gone up to 77 mph this year from 76 mph, but the graphs tell the story of how he got there better. He still throws his two or three knucklers, but he�s throwing the fast one more this year. And compare how often he throws a 74 mph knuckleball this year to how often he did so in 2010. There�s an evolution here. Some of it might have to do with the situations involved. From the beginning of his stretch of dominance, there�s been evidence that he uses different knuckleballs in different counts. And even in his last game, you could see that he was using the harder, straighter knuckleball when he needed strikes. But these velocity graphs don�t know counts. They show that regardless of count, Dickey is focusing on the faster knuckleball. Somehow, Dickey is using less movement and more velocity to make his knuckleball more effective. He�s also throwing his fastball less than ever (13.6% this year, 22.4% in 2011 and 16.2% in 2010). It�s a strange mix of less fastball gas and more gas on the knuckler, but it�s working. His swinging strike rate this year (12.7%) is far and away better than his career number (8.4%), and obviously the rest of his numbers are looking pretty positive. It�s not your traditional approach � nothing about this knuckleball pitcher is � but it�s clear that gas somehow powers this machine. Next time you see Dickey pitch, watch the radar gun. The numbers won�t look impressive, but they might tell you an interesting story. Per reader request and with Chad Young�s help, I�ve combined all three graphs into one and used a percent of the total instead of a pure count. I think you�ll clearly see the biggest difference is in the 72-74 mph range:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/r-a-dickeys-velocity/

[batmagadanleadoff]

The most dominant pitches of all time
Buster Olney Blog

CC Sabathia loves to hit and gets only a couple of chances to do so every season, and the baseball gods have been unfair to him today. Sabathia will be on Sunday Night Baseball (8 p.m. ET, ESPN) this evening, and does the left-hander get to swing against some mediocre right-hander with a meaty fastball?

No.

He gets to hit against R.A. Dickey, who has been throwing one of the most dominant pitches in baseball history during the last couple of months -- a knuckleball that is unlike any knuckler thrown in the past. And Sabathia has a clear strategy for his at-bats. "If it's a knuckleball, I'm not swinging" he said, smiling. "Because I don't want to get hurt, and I don't want to look bad."

If Sabathia does eventually take a hack and looks a little awkward, well, he can take solace in the fact that the best and most experienced hitters have looked that bad against Dickey this year.

The Mets' right-hander explained on Saturday that he has focused on maintaining the elevation of his knuckler this year, which he has a better chance to do than knuckleballers who have preceded him, from Tim Wakefield to Phil Niekro to Charlie Hough to Steve Sparks, because he throws it harder -- about 80 mph or a little bit more. The ball stays higher and gives Dickey a better chance at throwing strikes -- and with the dramatic late movement that comes with knuckleballs.

Catcher Josh Thole is convinced that Dickey's unusual knuckleball velocity comes from his legs in the way he drives off the mound. Knuckleballers like Wakefield have tended to just step toward home plate, but tonight the New York Yankees will see Dickey push off the pitching rubber at them, and when he maintains the proper release point, the ball darts through the strike zone unpredictably.

Dickey's command has gotten so good, Thole said, that he and Dickey have actually focused on location. Typically, catchers working with a knuckleballer set up over the middle of the plate, ready to react like hockey goalies. But Thole and Dickey will talk before the game about whether they want to work inside or outside to a particular hitter, and Thole will slide toward a corner of the plate to set his target. "And I won't change [during the at-bat]," Thole said.

Eric Chavez has had some success against Dickey in the past, but he says that the numbers he generated were against Dickey's old knuckler, not the dominant pitch he's throwing this year. "There really is no approach," Chavez said. "You just swing and you hope you hit it."

The most interesting approach against Dickey this season, Thole believes, was described by Adam LaRoche, who told the catcher he treats his at-bats against Dickey like he's playing slow-pitch softball -- stepping into the swing, Happy Gilmore style.

If he hits it, well, it's probably going to be a home run. But he probably won't hit it. The late movement is so extraordinary that hitters don't usually make contact against Dickey these days.

Earlier this week, I sent an e-mail to some evaluators asking them to note the best and most dominant pitches of all time -- like Mariano Rivera's cut fastball or Bruce Sutter's splitter, for example. Because right now, Dickey's pitch is a lot like those in their time: Almost unhittable. In posing the question, I asked the evaluators to stretch their memories, and some had fun with this purely subjective (but interesting) question. The results:

To read how the evaluators voted for the most dominant pitches of all time, you must be an ESPN Insider.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=olney_buster&id=8090568&_slug_=ra-dickey-knuckleball-most-dominant-pitches-all-time-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2fblog%3fname%3dolney_buster%26id%3d8090568%26_slug_%3dra-dickey-knuckleball-most-dominant-pitches-all-time-mlb

[MFS62]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: To read how the evaluators voted for the most dominant pitches of all time, you must be an ESPN Insider. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=olney_buster&id=8090568&_slug_=ra-dickey-knuckleball-most-dominant-pitches-all-time-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2fblog%3fname%3dolney_buster%26id%3d8090568%26_slug_%3dra-dickey-knuckleball-most-dominant-pitches-all-time-mlb

Fuck that shit.
If we were ESPN insiders we'd be more concerned with the upcoming NBA draft and NFL season rather than baseball.
What did it say? (summarize or paraphrase if you must)

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

New York Mets Enjoying Sizable 'Dickey Effect' of $116,000 Per Start During Pitcher's Hot Stretch

[Benjamin Grimm]

About half the spam I get is aimed at people who want a sizable Dickey effect.

[batmagadanleadoff]

RA is back on track for June 2012 NL pitcher of the month.
On the last day of June, only Miley and Strasburg, among pitchers listed below, are scheduled to pitch.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Next up .... RA. Because he deserves, not only his own thread, but his own cover, too.

[ashie62]

Now that Hoops is over he may very well get it...soon...

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: RA is back on track for June 2012 NL pitcher of the month. On the last day of June, only Miley and Strasburg, among pitchers listed below, are scheduled to pitch.

The final June #'s. It's got to be RA.