K-Rod Traded

[Centerfield]

I can't believe there is any discord on this move.

Moving K-Rod is a no-brainer. We should all be happy about this. It makes us marginally worse this year, but it makes us much, much better next year.

For what it's worth, I can see where ceetar is coming from. Every once in a while, I catch myself thinking "Wow, they win this series, then get Reyes, Wright, Davis and Santana back, maybe we go on a run and Beltran gets that ring as a Met that he deserves..." But then I catch myself, and realize this is silly.

Sandy Alderson was brought here to be smart. And this is a smart move.

Moving Beltran will also be a smart move, but it's one I will have a hard time with. Beltran is a terrific player and one of my favorite Mets of all time. I'll be very sorry to see him go, even if it's best for the team.

[seawolf17]

This is my new favorite thread.

[metirish]

seawolf17 wrote: This is my new favorite thread.

Was just going to post this.........

[TransMonk]

Centerfield wrote: I can't believe there is any discord on this move. Moving K-Rod is a no-brainer. We should all be happy about this. It makes us marginally worse this year, but it makes us much, much better next year. For what it's worth, I can see where ceetar is coming from. Every once in a while, I catch myself thinking "Wow, they win this series, then get Reyes, Wright, Davis and Santana back, maybe we go on a run and Beltran gets that ring as a Met that he deserves..." But then I catch myself, and realize this is silly. Sandy Alderson was brought here to be smart. And this is a smart move. Moving Beltran will also be a smart move, but it's one I will have a hard time with. Beltran is a terrific player and one of my favorite Mets of all time. I'll be very sorry to see him go, even if it's best for the team.

This. Very much, this.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

What I like most about today is the rediscovery of how nice surprises are when you trust the men/women in charge.

[metsmarathon]

Ceetar wrote: The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting.

to be clear:

the mets farm system is loaded with nothing more than the possibility that the mets will be better in the future.

would you favor trading away any and all players we have in our farm system for short term improvements to the current team, and repeating that strategy ad infinitum?

that this trade only improves the probability that the mets will be better in the future than they would have been had the trade not been made makes me very much excited indeed. for this team they currently have. because now this season can be something to build upon. because this season is no longer an out of control train careening towards a hard stop at the end of the line. a hand is on the brakes and they're laying new track fast.

a dark cloud has lifted, and the future is what sandy can make of it, not any longer just what omar had left for him.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: Yes, the Mets, despite the huge amount of better things to do with the money, could still mis-spend it, out of bad luck or poor wisdom. But this isn't optimism. At all. And if you think that a team shouldn't avoid tremendously bad investments because they're only going to find worse ones, then you shouldn't be a GM. K-Rod (God forbid) could die in a car wreck just as easy as the guy they otherwise sign. That risk is on both sides of the equation, for God's sake. Ceetar wrote: The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting. Is it the emotional argument or the logical one you're going to stick to, because you keep conceding the latter to return to the former only to re-assert the latter. I'm really not sure I'm _arguing_ anything. I'm confessing and opinion that I don't find this anything to get excited about. Yes, their is risk on both sides of the equation. But I'm not going to get excited about the unknown one merely on a pile of cash that may or may not be used. And really, this has nothing to do with Rodriguez. The Mets no longer have him. It's over. I'm not overly excited about the Mets ability to spend 40 million instead of 30, or however it ultimately works out. If the Mets bring in a pitcher, say Kuroda, as the first name off the top of my head, and I think he can help, I'm not going to be less excited about it if he makes 9 million instead of 6. When Sandy Alderson selects a player from the Brewers, and I can look him up and think "Hey, maybe that guy could get some people out with that curve ball!" I'll get excited about it.

Thus the return to the emotional argument when the rational one is unsustainable.

And I'm here to remind you that the 2011 Mets will be fine. They may finish in the money, and they may finish out, but the difference is so totally unlikely be to be presence of Francisco Rodriguez that you needn't trouble your sleep. I'd say it's more likely that the sudden available funds and the emotional eruption that comes from a newly signed Reyes (to be announce within 18 hours) is what put them over the top.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting.

I find it very exciting. I like seeing the Mets get better.

[Edgy MD]

The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting. to be clear: the mets farm system is loaded with nothing more than the possibility that the mets will be better in the future.

The Mets major league team is loaded with nothing more than the possibility that the Mets will be better in the future. Every event is merely a potential event until it happens. Every ball is unstruck until it is struck. Every dollar is an abstraction until it is spent.

The GM's job is to measure that potential for greatness and meaning, and to stock the organization with greater potential with more meaning. The players still win the game, this year and next. The GM just tries to put the best resources in the best position.

But I promise you that K-Rod won't be the difference.

[metirish]

I think this thread should be shipped of to CERN for the answer.

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/lhc/lhc-en.html

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Thus the return to the emotional argument when the rational one is unsustainable. And I'm here to remind you that the 2011 Mets will be fine. They may finish in the money, and they may finish out, but the difference is so totally unlikely be to be presence of Francisco Rodriguez that you needn't trouble your sleep. I'd say it's more likely that the sudden available funds and the emotional eruption that comes from a newly signed Reyes (to be announce within 18 hours) is what put them over the top.

If I changed course and talked rational argument it's because someone misinterpreted my statements. All I've ever meant to say is the emotional one.
I doubt Reyes is resigned until the Einhorn deal is finalized, which I doubt happens while he's in Vegas.

I expected Frankie to get traded, or at least his option to be avoided in some way, since the season started. The only surprise on my part is that it happened last night instead of a week or two from now. I'm not the GM, I'm not trying to analyze trades like one. I'm not even disagreeing, I'm merely not excited about the sudden influx of cash. Or anymore excited than I was planning to be this offseason anyway. But that's it, I get caught up in the resign-Reyes stuff because he's freaking awesome and is and should be a Mets legend, but really

I'm not going to get excited about the offseason until it's upon us. Belief in a playoff berth or not, to start dividing up the salaries towards some sort of future acquisition is writing off this season as uninteresting and not worth watching. It's baseball, it's back in two days. I watch Spring Training games and the All-Star game, I was at the last game of 2009 , it's not like i'm only invested in these season for some diamond in the rough Santana as a 5-game winner savior in September hope.

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: Every ball is unstruck until it is struck.

Whoa. /head explodes

CF is right. As usual.

[Frayed Knot]

seawolf17 wrote: This is my new favorite thread.

And part of what makes it good is that the thread starter opted NOT to put it in some all-purpose-shit-that-happens-during-the-trading-deadline-season thread.

[Guest Number 6]

frankie rodriguez is that golden shower.

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: I don't see why you're insistant on extrapolating on what I'm saying. All I'm saying is this news does not mean "yay, now we get Reyes!" We could still not get him. We could've gotten him anyway. It's also not a given that the 17.5 is more value than K-Rod provides. (If you need an example, What if last year the Yankees had decided not to spend the 15mill on Mariano and had used it to sign Feliciano and Soriano? Not quite teh same as they're all relievers, but the guy you spend the money on could be Mo Vaughn or just trip and break his leg for that matter) The percentages suggest it's much much more likely. But that's all a GM really controls, percentages. (Paraphrasing Sandy here) The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting. It's merely a good financial decision, but in terms of how I feel about the team in general, at this moment, it's hardly more than buying an energy efficient refridgerator. Sure, that money saved probably allows me to keep Netflix even with the price going up, but the fridge could still end up causing brown outs or end up being a faulty model.

Sitting back with legs up waiting for Ceetar to start therapy.

Cmon dude...Players come and go. Don't torture yourself..

[Ceetar]

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I don't see why you're insistant on extrapolating on what I'm saying. All I'm saying is this news does not mean "yay, now we get Reyes!" We could still not get him. We could've gotten him anyway. It's also not a given that the 17.5 is more value than K-Rod provides. (If you need an example, What if last year the Yankees had decided not to spend the 15mill on Mariano and had used it to sign Feliciano and Soriano? Not quite teh same as they're all relievers, but the guy you spend the money on could be Mo Vaughn or just trip and break his leg for that matter) The percentages suggest it's much much more likely. But that's all a GM really controls, percentages. (Paraphrasing Sandy here) The almost certain probability that this ultimately makes the Mets better in the long run is not exciting. It's merely a good financial decision, but in terms of how I feel about the team in general, at this moment, it's hardly more than buying an energy efficient refridgerator. Sure, that money saved probably allows me to keep Netflix even with the price going up, but the fridge could still end up causing brown outs or end up being a faulty model. Sitting back with legs up waiting for Ceetar to start therapy. Cmon dude...Players come and go. Don't torture yourself..

The only thing torturing me is the 51 hours until Mets baseball. I'm not excited about offseason fiduciary concerns, but i'm extremely excited for the next 70+ Mets baseball games.

[Vic Sage]

i hereby renounce my title as TiTTS founder, and pass the crown to the Cee-man.
Remember to uphold the TiTTS with pride.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: i hereby renounce my title as TiTTS founder, and pass the crown to the Cee-man. Remember to uphold the TiTTS with pride.

Last time I did that my wife hit me.

what are we talking about?

[TransMonk]

TiTTs = Trade in Tomorrow Today Society

Wanting to trade tomorrows stars for stars today because, damn it, we're a big market team and prospects take to damn long. The premise is basically that the possible production of future stars is outweighed by the actual production of current stars.

http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/3400/f1_t3455.shtml

[Vic Sage]

I can't believe there is any discord on this move.

there really isn't very much discord here, other than Ceetar's "lack of excitement."

Ceetar wrote: ...I'm not going to get excited about the offseason until it's upon us. Belief in a playoff berth or not, to start dividing up the salaries towards some sort of future acquisition is writing off this season as uninteresting and not worth watching. It's baseball, it's back in two days.

This is a fallacy of false alternatives. You can be as excited as you want about baseball's imminent return; how does that in any way limit your ability to appreciate your team's management making a move that improves their chances for the future? Your excitement for baseball THIS year drives out appreciation about improving our chances for NEXT year? I don't believe that's true, and I don't think you do either. It seems to me that you just obviously feel that the minimal difference between K-Rod's potential performance through the balance of this season (over Izzy/Parnell/Beato, or whomever gets those KRod innings) is the difference in us making a post-season run, or the $17.5m option is not really an issue for next year's team, because their payroll is (or should be) unlimited.

You may call that "optimism", but I call that the kind of magical thinking that sets an organization up to fail indefinitely.

[Ceetar]

I think it's fairly clear that I'm unable to fully articulate what I'm try to say here.

But most of my focus is on the here and now, on this season. It's not some decade long picture where I focus on the entire organizational direction towards some grand goal down the road of playoffs every year and winning 6 championships to tie the "Subway Series Race" or whatever, though that'd be nice. It's this season, this individual race, or non-race, or whatever you want to call it.

It's not that my 'excitement' for payroll flexibility is limited. but it's just that, flexibility. No telling how much Alderson bends yet. There are endless, boring months where the Islanders will put up loss after loss and my twitter feed will be filled with boring Jets fans to discuss the relatives merits of various free agent pick ups and how theycould fit into the 2012+ Mets. This was inevitable. And there will be others, including resigning Reyes and arbriration raises and maybe guys they let go that affect that line. But today to me is just a step for next year, and i never had any doubt taht Sandy was going to let that option cripple him. It's no more exciting than releasing Perez or Castillo was (and I know many of you disagree with me on that one too). Their money comes off the books next year too, and is a bigger (combined anyway) part of the picture.

I expected something a little more tangible out of a trade. Trades and injuries and i'd like to see something nice added to the team for once instaed of Manny Acosta.

[Edgy MD]

That last line is kind of particuarly unfair --- to the team, to us, and to Manny Acosta. I don't get the hangup. He's pitched 12 innings this year.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: That last line is kind of particuarly unfair --- to the team, to us, and to Manny Acosta. I don't get the hangup. He's pitched 12 innings this year.

bad innings. and he's slated for more.

What, I'm not allowed to think a particular reliever is particularly bad?

[metirish]

I for one thought you would be optimistic on Acosta, perhaps now he will get more innings and improve as they build.

[seawolf17]

I think we're all on more or less the same page here, no? Ceetar's just saying that he's reserving judgment on the baseballiness of this trade right now, and I think that's reasonable. Realistically, a guy with experience and success in high-leverage situations is out of our bullpen for Friday without an obviously specific replacement; on the other hand, we gain what appears to be a great deal of payroll flexibility, which, from everything we've heard and read, should be a very positive thing for the organization as they go forward, for the rest of this year and/or plan for 2012 and beyond.

[metirish]

Ceetar's not taking the piss?

Kidding, K-Rod has given rise to some great discussion since he got here.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: That last line is kind of particuarly unfair --- to the team, to us, and to Manny Acosta. I don't get the hangup. He's pitched 12 innings this year. bad innings. and he's slated for more. What, I'm not allowed to think a particular reliever is particularly bad?

Now, you're just being a martyr. You're allowed to think whatever you want. And we're allowed to respectfully criticize it. Come on. Do I really need to list everything and everyone --- good, bad, and indifferent --- that has been added to the team besides Manny Acosta? It's a completely unfair and unbecoming assertion.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Ceetar's not taking the piss? Kidding, K-Rod has given rise to some great discussion since he got here.

I think we've already established I don't want a golden shower.


So, what are our picks for roster replacement? Probably between Igarashi, O'Connor and Thayer given 40man status?

Igarashi has a .087 ERA with a nice K/9 rate..

[bmfc1]

Tweets say it's Igarashi.

[metirish]

Melvin says Axford and Rodriguez will share closer duties.