Re-Sign Reyes NOW!!!!

[Vic Sage]

Ceetar wrote: well it's rare that that many teams get involved, and once they do, it easily prices out most of the tepid interest anyway. the worry was always that one team would do something completely ridiculous, but if Reyes is serious about wanting to stay, if he gives the Mets the counter opportunity on the reasonable (right now, Marlins), he might just accept it, not go back to the bidding team and get them to increase it too (like Beltran did), and then come back to the Mets again.

why would he leave money on the table? Loyalty? Please.

When you consider FLA's state tax situation, and its proximity to the DR, and the team's solvency and competitive role in the division (no worse, certainly, than the mets and probably better, with a new stadium), it will likely require the mets to not just match but meaningfully exceed the Marlins offer to persuade him to stay. And if the agent doesn't play the mets off the marlins to get the best possible deal, he should get fired.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: Ceetar wrote: well it's rare that that many teams get involved, and once they do, it easily prices out most of the tepid interest anyway. the worry was always that one team would do something completely ridiculous, but if Reyes is serious about wanting to stay, if he gives the Mets the counter opportunity on the reasonable (right now, Marlins), he might just accept it, not go back to the bidding team and get them to increase it too (like Beltran did), and then come back to the Mets again. why would he leave money on the table? Loyalty? Please. When you consider FLA's state tax situation, and its proximity to the DR, and the team's solvency and competitive role in the division (no worse, certainly, than the mets and probably better, with a new stadium), it will likely require the mets to not just match but meaningfully exceed the Marlins offer to persuade him to stay. And if the agent doesn't play the mets off the marlins to get the best possible deal, he should get fired.

reread what I said. I didn't say he was leaving money on the table. I simply suggested that he might not be after trying to milk absolutely every last penny out of the situation. When the Marlins make a real offer, Reyes goes back to the Mets and says 'give me more'. They give him more. Does he then run back to the Marlins and ask them for more? Maybe he just takes it. Substitute Marlins for 'market value'. He finds the best deal, then asks the Mets to top it. Does he then start all over again? Go back to each team and see if they'll give him another million annually?

Does he actually care about South Beach/proximity to DR? He makes his home in Long Island. It's not like he bolts the second the season ends, hell he even goes to Islanders games.

He's not counting the Wilpons pennies, beyond what they give him. And while players may try to get on a team that's playoff bound, they rarely are projecting that team based on prospects and whispers. No one's picking the Marlins to make the playoffs, no matter what they do before Reyes signs. They probably don't even finish about .500. Whatever you believe Jose Reyes priorities are, they are just what you believe, with no basis in fact. All we have is statements that he wants to be here, and vague quotes from the "Reyes camp" that he wants to be sold on the overall direction of the team. That's a much easier sell in NY than in Miami. You really think Reyes, who just played three years in the new Citi Field in NY, is going to buy the "Marlins stadium will solve everything!" argument? He's played road games down there, he knows how empty it is.

[ashie62]

Is it possible Reyes is turning off other teams something beyond his injury history and a crappy economy? I only say that because they way he left that last game when he knew people were there specifically to see him makes me wonder if he comes across as a selfish prick? Kinda like me..

He appears to have become affordable in most markets.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Phillies, for one, are a team that's not interested because of Jose's "reputation." (Yes, the same team that just signed a jackass relief pitcher.)

I suspect, though, that if teams are wary of Jose it's more because of his legs than his head.

[metirish]

It really does amaze me that Reyes is tagged as such for doing nothing more really than celebrating, dancing and smiling, ok, maybe a little brooding too.

[smg58]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I suspect, though, that if teams are wary of Jose it's more because of his legs than his head.

I would hope so, at any rate. But I'll see what he winds up getting before drawing any conclusions.

[Ceetar]

I would hope not. I hope everyone else thinks he's a malcontented clubhouse cancer and refuses to sign him.

[seawolf17]

We should start a smear campaign!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Phillies, for one, are a team that's not interested because of Jose's "reputation." (Yes, the same team that just signed a jackass relief pitcher.)

It might be my recent self-demi-exile, but this move seems to have gone relatively undiscussed-- surprisingly so-- in these precincts.

But yeah, anyone who'd discount Reyes for "off-field issues" is either an imbecile or a genius who gives an aging Ryan Howard a Pujols-plus long-term contract.

[Vic Sage]

reread what I said.

no thanks.

I didn't say he was leaving money on the table. I simply suggested that he might not be after trying to milk absolutely every last penny out of the situation. When the Marlins make a real offer, Reyes goes back to the Mets and says 'give me more'. They give him more. Does he then run back to the Marlins and ask them for more? Maybe he just takes it. Substitute Marlins for 'market value'. He finds the best deal, then asks the Mets to top it. Does he then start all over again? Go back to each team and see if they'll give him another million annually?

no, he doesn't do that. HIS AGENT DOES THAT. And that's how you figure out what "market value" is... what the market is willing to pay him. If he didn't do that, one would have to ask "why"? you seem to think he won't necessarily do that, but i don't know why he wouldn't. If the agent failed to do it, he should be fired.

As to "loyalty", i offered some contrary (albeit hypothetical) factors that might weigh against it. You dismiss all of them with no more basis than i had in offering them.

Does he actually care about South Beach/proximity to DR? He makes his home in Long Island. It's not like he bolts the second the season ends, hell he even goes to Islanders games.

I have no idea about his emotional connection to the DR. But it is where he's from, and i'm sure he still has family there, and i know he does visit in the off-season. But the notion that his "home" is LI is just silly. Its where his HOUSE is... his HOME is wherever he decides it is, and that's often where the heart is. LI is where he commutes to work from.

He's not counting the Wilpons pennies, beyond what they give him. And while players may try to get on a team that's playoff bound, they rarely are projecting that team based on prospects and whispers. No one's picking the Marlins to make the playoffs, no matter what they do before Reyes signs. They probably don't even finish about .500.

No, YOU'RE the one who doesn't consider budgets relevant. It's not farfetched to think that Jose may prefer to be in a winning situation, which it hasn't been around here in years. His advisors may suggest a move to a franchise on the rise would bring him closer to winning than one whose fortunes, both literally and metaphorically, are falling.

Whatever you believe Jose Reyes priorities are, they are just what you believe, with no basis in fact. All we have is statements that he wants to be here, and vague quotes from the "Reyes camp" that he wants to be sold on the overall direction of the team. That's a much easier sell in NY than in Miami. You really think Reyes, who just played three years in the new Citi Field in NY, is going to buy the "Marlins stadium will solve everything!" argument? He's played road games down there, he knows how empty it is

But neither is there any "basis in fact" to believe that Jose's "loyalty" will lead him to take less than the very most he can possibly get, regardless of who pays it. That's just your typically Ceetardian optimism blathering on, based on standard PR statements and your own hope. I was simply pointing out some factors that might not cut our way, not claiming any knowledge as to Jose's priorities. What experience has taut us is that FAs, with some exceptions, take the deal that pays the most guaranteed cash.

[ashie62]

[Edgy MD]

I don't get the beliefs-have-no-basis-in-fact arguments that have been flying around. Beliefs tend to have at least some factual basis.

You may believe that Jose likes Long Island. You could be wrong, but the notion that he lives there lends some foundation to the notion.

[ashie62]

I believe in Beatles.

[stevejrogers]

Ashie62 wrote: I believe in Beatles.

I don't believe in Zimmerman though...

[MFS62]

IIRC, there used to be a rule that said you couldn't re-sign your own free agents until well into the New Year.
Is that still the rule?

Later

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: IIRC, there used to be a rule that said you couldn't re-sign your own free agents until well into the New Year. Is that still the rule?

Nope, they did away with that rule a bunch of year ago.
Reyes can now sign with any team at any time.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And the rule was the other way around; you didn't have to wait to resign your guy, but you had to sign him by January 8 or he became off limits until May 1.

[MFS62]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And the rule was the other way around; you didn't have to wait to resign your guy, but you had to sign him by January 8 or he became off limits until May 1.

That delay until after May 1 was what I was thinking of.
Thanks,
Later

[seawolf17]

I distinctly remember Tim Raines being subject to that rule, but can't remember anyone else being affected by it. Looking back, it was 1987; and despite missing a month, he still led the NL with 123 runs. It's still surprising to me that he's not a HoFer.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Tim Raines is also the guy I think of in relation to that May 1 date.

The January 8 deadline came into play more frequently. With the Mets I remember Edgardo Alfonzo passing that date, and maybe John Olerud.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Raines was a victim of collusion that year.

[seawolf17]

Looking back more deeply, I know why Raines sticks in my head. His first game back was a Saturday game against the Mets that I probably watched:

http://www.leaptoad.com/mets/gamedetail.php?gameno=4044

[G-Fafif]

Gedman with the Red Sox was another who was left unwanted until May 1 or thereabouts in 1987.

[Edgy MD]

Ended Dave Kingman's career.

[Benjamin Grimm]

This is from MLBTradeRumors.com, which I've never heard of, so I won't comment on its credibility. It seems to be a consolidation of rumors and reports from around the big leagues.

Anyway, here it is:

Jose Reyes Market May Be Down To Just Marlins, Mets By Mark Polishuk [December 1, 2011 at 9:12pm CST] The Marlins and Mets may be the last two contenders remaining in the Jose Reyes sweepstakes, and the Marlins "hopes are high" that they will land the free agent shortstop, reports CBSSports.com's Scott Miller (passed on by his CBS colleague Matt Snyder). Another baseball source tells Miller, "everyone seems to think Reyes is the right fit for the Marlins." The Braves, Giants and Phillies are out of the bidding, according to SI.com's Jon Heyman, with the Brewers and Tigers seen as "iffy" or very unlikely candidates by Heyman and CBSSports.com's Danny Knobler. So, unless a fringe suitor like the Red Sox get involved, it may be down to just the two NL East rivals. Miami has offered Reyes a six-year deal worth somewhere between $70MM and $90MM, and Heyman tweets the Marlins could "bump it a bit" and then set a deadline since the offer has been on the table for a while. Even with the apparently thin market for Reyes, this kind of hardball tactic could backfire on the Fish since it could allow the Mets or another team to jump into the bidding at a lower price. The Marlins have openly targeted many top free agents this winter but this high profile only increases the pressure on the club to actually sign at least one or two of these big names. The Mets are apparently willing to offer a five-year, $80MM contract. GM Sandy Alderson told reporters today (including MLB.com's Anthony DiComo) that he wasn't aware of any teams besides Miami in the hunt for Reyes and that he was planning to meet with Reyes' agents before or during the Winter Meetings. That lack of a sixth year in the offer could ultimately hurt the Mets, even though their offer would give Reyes a larger average annual value than the Marlins' deal, presuming Miami's offer is six years/$90MM. Maybe a sixth year on a vesting option could bring Reyes back to New York.

[Ceetar]

the site's reputable..been around a while and what not. (in so much as they're not making things up, but that doesn't mean when they link to Heyman he's not misrepresenting stuff)

But the story doesn't exactly mean much. Other teams could still get in on him, the Marlins offer is largely unsubstantiated, and the Mets haven't made one.

[Guest attgig]

the site's definitely reputable. they had a list of ballplayers once who are subscribers to their website to see if they're getting traded or not (kinda crazy). Recently, the they linked a newspaper story about how the pad's gm reads mlbtr

[Frayed Knot]

I don't think the site is "disreputable" but - and correct me if I'm wrong here - they're also not a place that does any actual reporting on their own.
To me they're just a clearinghouse of sorts which gathers info, speculative or otherwise, and repackages it as the rumors they are.
IOW, as a source they're as reliable as the sources they're quoting.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Dierkes does some calls and reporting, as well as some half-decent market/roster analysis.

Let's put it this way: if ESPN's other-peoples'-shoulders-standing reporters count as reputable press, so does Dierkes; at least he credits the original source without fail.

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Dierkes does some calls and reporting, as well as some half-decent market/roster analysis. Let's put it this way: if ESPN's other-peoples'-shoulders-standing reporters count as reputable press, so does Dierkes; at least he credits the original source without fail.

Well, as much as I'm willing to blast the four-letter network and their penchant for breaking news that wasn't remotely their doing, Kurkjian, Starks, Olney, etc., are full-time and real reporters so it's not quite the same thing.

Nothing wrong with what MLB-Rumors (or similar sites) does, it's just that the question about whether or not they're reliable depends on whose actual reporting they're quoting.