The Maine Thing

[Guest Edgy DC]

John Maine is
[list:37ma3zcg][*:37ma3zcg]Maine is 41-36 with a 4.35 ERA in his seven year career;[/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]8-9 with a 4.98 ERA in 24 starts over the last two seasons (121 innings);[/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]Coming off two straight seasons wrecked by injuries;[/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]Surviving from two straight shoulder surgeries;[/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]Reportedly recovering nicely from the second surgery;[/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]A pathological liar when it comes to health, according to pitching coach Dan Warthen
[list:37ma3zcg][*:37ma3zcg](Dan Warthen, who the Mets have retained for 2011);[/*:m:37ma3zcg][/list:u:37ma3zcg][/*:m:37ma3zcg]
[*:37ma3zcg]Entitled to earn, if the Mets are to retain him, at least 80% of last season's salary, which would come to approximately $2.64 million.[/*:m:37ma3zcg][/list:u:37ma3zcg]

[Ceetar]

too big a risk. offer him a minor league deal. The Mets need pitchers in camp, but Maine is virtually a complete unknown at this point, and I don't think they can afford that money on him.

Now, if the 2.4 mill doesn't actually hurt the Mets from doing anything else this season, then sure, go ahead. I think he'll have a shot at a decent year now that he's actually healthy, but i don't know their finances.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Nah, wouldn't do it.

Pitchers with chronically hurty pitching arms don't tend to quit being hurt, and poor guy throws all slow now, too.

Sorry, Johnny Maine. I'd say you've got to work your way back to those $2.6 mils, if you were to stay around here. Would think that some team somewhere would offer him more than a minor league deal, though.

[Ceetar]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Nah, wouldn't do it. Pitchers with chronically hurty pitching arms don't tend to quit being hurt, and poor guy throws all slow now, too. Sorry, Johnny Maine. I'd say you've got to work your way back to those $2.6 mils, if you were to stay around here. Would think that some team somewhere would offer him more than a minor league deal, though.

well he was throwing all slow while hurt and injured. so who knows.

[ashie62]

If the general idea is to lighten the Mets payroll I don't see that you tender Maine. He is very ordinary.

[Ceetar]

Ashie62 wrote: If the general idea is to lighten the Mets payroll I don't see that you tender Maine. He is very ordinary.

is that the general idea? I thought the idea was to create roster and payroll flexibility? one year contracts don't hinder that.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the general general idea is to win ballgamage, and to hopefully do it with honor. Can $2.64 million for John Maine help you do that? He's got pitchability, and probably still has some career ahead of him scratching out some suceess with little velocity left.

All-time Met pitchers by wins credited:

T16) Jesse Orosco 47
T16) Tug McGraw 47
T18) Mike Pelfrey 43
T18) Al Jackson 43
T20) Pat Zachry 41
T20) Gary Gentry 41
22) Johan Santana 40
23) John Maine 39
T24) Ed Lynch 38
T24) Frank Viola 38
T24) Jack Fisher 38
27) Rick Aguilera 37
28) Jim McAndrew 36
29) Roger McDowell 33
30) Pedro Martinez 32
31) Ray Sadecki 30
32) Oliver Perez 29

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Pat Zachary, already linked to Tom Seaver forever, has 41 Met wins???

Maine's one-hitter was magical, but I don't see that happening again.

[smg58]

Assuming he even gets a major league deal, whatever salary he earns should come from incentives.

[MFS62]

Nay.
I'd rather remember the Alamo.

Later

[Valadius]

I've gotta say no, as much as I would love to take a flyer on him, because I just don't trust him to be honest about when he's hurt.

[seawolf17]

No. I want to say "but he's still young," but he'll be 30 in May. Sorry, John. I really wish it could have been better.

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: Ashie62 wrote: If the general idea is to lighten the Mets payroll I don't see that you tender Maine. He is very ordinary. is that the general idea? I thought the idea was to create roster and payroll flexibility? one year contracts don't hinder that.

One year contracts do not hinder flexibility. Paying John Maine millions is just stewpidity!

[Lefty Specialist]

Unfortunately, there wasn't a poll choice of 'No F@(#ing Way'.

[Fman99]

Nope. John, have a Coke and a smile and get off our lawn.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Keeping around someone who comes with the whole maybe-he'll-stay-healthy-this-year bit attached is frustrating when it comes attached to a Santana-like potential benefit. It's lunacy when it costs more than a million or so, and it doesn't have that upside.

This? I'd rather give the money to Feleesh or another middle-reliever-- whoever it is will be a better bet for 70 innings.

[duan]

I'm not sure. 2.5 million is not a lot in the greater scheme of things and is the kind deal you throw out there on something that you think might be salvageable and if it is salvageable you've got a very important working part of your overall set up.
However substitute million with billion and multiply by 10 and you've got the "Irish Banking Fuckup 2010"

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. That's the kind of money you throw after rehab projects, with maybe a 15-20% bonus for being a local yokel.

But such an investment would have to be done with an eye on his schedule and whether its reasonable to think any of his velocity can return this year, plus an honest conversation with Dan Warthan about whether he wants any part of the guy.

Right now, he's the team's number five starter on opening day, with Gee just behind him and bumping him down if he needs to start the season on a rehab assignment, but wiht Santana at number one, also a decent bet not to answer the bell on April 1.

I've got no problem if they re-up him at 80%, but when they go shopping for other pitching, they need to have an eye toward health certainty as much as high quality.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The money's worth it if he's 2007 John Maine-- or something like it-- at the end of it all.

But here's the rub: that's his ONLY fully healthy, productive year on record in the last five. So there's no guarantee-- hell, little likelihood-- of his being able to reach, much less sustain, that again. Plus, he's now three full years removed from that. And it wasn't THAT damn good.

They've been giving him the rehab-project money, in essence, for the last two years. If nothing else-- his history here, last year's Warthen business-- he's a classic-needs-a-change-of-scenery case at this point.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The money's worth it if he's 2007 John Maine-- or something like it-- at the end of it all. But here's the rub: that's his ONLY fully healthy, productive year on record in the last five. So there's no guarantee-- hell, little likelihood-- of his being able to reach, much less sustain, that again. Plus, he's now three full years removed from that. And it wasn't THAT damn good. They've been giving him the rehab-project money, in essence, for the last two years. If nothing else-- his history here, last year's Warthen business-- he's a classic-needs-a-change-of-scenery case at this point.

Well, still unhappy about Warthen myself. But since they've decided to keep the bum, you gotta make sure he wants to work with Maine.

But Maine's a fighter, works hard, cares..etc. supposedly likes it here, is close to Pelfrey, etc.

but I do feel like we're working off little info. When is he gonna start throwing again? is he? What's his velocity at? Can he be ready to throw when pitchers and catchers report? Would he be willing (not sure what the contract would say here) to start in Buffalo if he's not quite ready yet but shows promise? Do the Mets feel his 'natural' motion is likely to cause the injury to reoccur, or he can adjust his mechanics to suit? Do they trust Collins and Warthen to possible rest a guy more regularly coming off shoulder surgery?

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's $2.64 mil. He doesn't have to be as good as he was in 2007 to be worth that. I'd certainly take 2006 or 2008 numbers for that change.

I'm almost certain he's gone, though. The team probably can't handle the stress of trying to figure him and and Perez out again. They probably want to give Warthan some new problems.

I don't think there's anything bum-like about Warthan.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: It's $2.64 mil. He doesn't have to be as good as he was in 2007 to be worth that. I'd certainly take 2006 or 2008 numbers for that change. I'm almost certain he's gone, though. The team probably can't handle the stress of trying to figure him and and Perez out again. They probably want to give Warthan some new problems. I don't think there's anything bum-like about Warthan.

I think people are tired of both of them, however, what's best for the team is not necessary to adhere to what the fans want.

I'm curious what other teams think of Maine. I don't think they do 2.64 million, but I think they might be well served to offer him something lesser, after the fact. If someone really wants him, he'll go elsewhere, but if he's willing to prove it in Buffalo..

[metirish]

Watching him the last few seasons struggle to get five innings in was frustrating , really not sure if he's worth the risk but he might be worth it when compared to what the Mets will supposedly be shopping for in terms of pitching....Millwood ect.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: It's $2.64 mil. He doesn't have to be as good as he was in 2007 to be worth that. I'd certainly take 2006 or 2008 numbers for that change.

A fair point, sorta. What I really kinda meant was, "The bet's only worth it, if..." more than "The money's only worth it." If he gives you 2006 or 2009-- both being, what, 15-start seasons-- he's just about worth what you've paid him (or a shade more, if he's giving you actual decent innings in those starts). But he's a coin flip to give you even THAT, no? That risk has to be worth a discount... and 2.6-plus for that sort of low-upside risk isn't much of a discount.

I mean, really... he's a flyball pitcher with iffy walk numbers and more gopher issues than Bushwood... when he's healthy. At this point, he's a shaky bet to pitch 100-150 average-to-slightly-above-average innings, whereas a Millwood-- for example-- is a good bet to give you 150-200 league-average innings. What's a better investment, really?

[i'm not being unreasonable about this, am I? I feel a little like I am.]

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think there's anything bum-like about Warthan.

Me neither. The Mets had the sixth-best ERA in the league last year which, while not spectacular, isn't at all bad. And Warthen has gotten strong endorsements from Pelfrey and Dickey, who'd know more about this issue than any of us here. I'd say that Warthen has earned his reinstatement.

[Guest Edgy DC]

If you're being unreasonable, then so are 21 of the other 25 voters in this poll.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And...?

AND...?!

[Valadius]

Buh-bye, weirdo.