A Putz in our future?

[nymr83]

]Part of me is surprised that Schoenweis is the one to stick around

i think nobody wanted to take his contract on

[bmfc1]

The Mets got two big guys:
Putz is 6'5, 250
Green is 6'6, 230.

[metirish]

The sports guy on CBS this morning pronounced Putz as Pootz , is that it?

[smg58]

I'm not sure what Reed and Green do for us. Like I said yesterday, the Mets could use another righty reserve outfielder, and Reed is left-handed. Green can give innings, but he's not that good. I'd have said no dice to those two and either kept Vargas or Smith, or tried to get Seattle to send more players to Cleveland so that we could get Asdrubal Cabrera or one of their catching prospects.

But K-Rod and a healthy JJ Putz on top of our pen make for a nice haul. Both are better than Wagner, much less the rest of our sorry staff from last year.

Chavez is making $2M, and Heilman would likely get $1.5M in arbitration, so we're not really taking on that much (at least not this year) with Putz.

[bmfc1]

Intel on Reed and Green from Keith Law:

The Mets also pick up extra outfielder Jeremy Reed, a defensive specialist who makes a lot of contact but lacks power or patience; and right-handed ground-ball machine Sean Green, who should benefit from the left side of the Mets' infield as long as manager Jerry Manuel keeps him away from too many lefties.

[bmfc1]

Kurjian on Mike & Mike this morning... a few years ago, Peter Schmuck went to J.J. Putz and said "my name is Schmuck and your name is Putts and he said it's Poots" and that was the end of that conversation.

[TransMonk]

I've always thought it was like PUTS, as in "It puts the lotion in the basket."

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

="TransMonk":raawcub4]Went searching for some Mariner boards to gauge their reaction. Most boards don't have any posts since October...but the few I did find had posters that thought any trade where you were getting 7 players couldn't be all that bad..[/quote:raawcub4] Dave Cameron of the USS Mariner (which is a pretty awesome blog, btw) likes[/url:raawcub4] the trade for the M's, but I think that has more to do with Gutierrez than anyone else.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 07:53 AM

Check out Jeremy Reed[/url:1l9kzq28]'s most comparable at age 25 and 6th most comparable at 27.

bmfc1 Dec 11 2008 07:56 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 07:58 AM

More on the trade here: http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/2008/12/11/on-putz-and-friends/ Hyde also has it that Reed is a younger version of Endy. Thanks for the link, JCF.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 07:57 AM

Bruce Boisclair No. 7 most similar overall. If this cat wasn't born to be a Met I dunno who was. Serioiusly, I have no idea if he has any shot at being good again, but I like getting bench guys in their 20s for bench guys in their 30s. Good idea at any rate.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 08:02 AM

Reed, I assume, competes with Evans for the fifth outfielder spot. Barring further deals, the outfield looks like Beltran, Church, Tatis, Murphy and Evans or Reed.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 08:03 AM

Sean Green (wasn't he our right fielder a few years ago?) doesn't help the LOOGY/ROOGY situation[/url:2zfs2xm9]: lefties basically become Derrek Lee against him, but he's off the charts on the GB/FB ratio and does a good job against righties.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 08:08 AM

He's Joe Smith with a more common name (in Met terms).

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 08:21 AM

The Mets made a trade where they picked up three guys, none of whom are Hispanic. Omar's critics who think he's racist won't take note of this, of course.

Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 09:12 AM

="Gwreck":gb33zp1i]Final tally: We are giving up: Heilman Smith Chavez Jason Vargas Mike Carp Ezequiel Carera Maikel Cleto Getting: Putz Reed Green[/quote:gb33zp1i] - Chavez and Smith for Reed and Green is a wash, more or less. - Putz for Heilman is a major upgrade, at a cost of 4 non-key prospects that were not going to have any role on the major league level for a few years (if ever). The TiTTS say "yea, verily, yea" Gwreck Dec 11 2008 09:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":2d1mi4lq]The Mets made a trade where they picked up three guys, none of whom are Hispanic. Omar's critics who think he's racist won't take note of this, of course.[/quote:2d1mi4lq] I didn't think we had any of those "critics" here. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 09:23 AM I like this move more the more I think about it. Now, if they'd only use Putz as a relief ace instead of the 8th inning guy... John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 09:54 AM I'd love it if they'd be more fluid, if not as a McDowell-Orosco kinda swappy closer thing than maybe Putz gets actual "fireman" status -- use him whenever the game is on the line -- with Rodriguez getting the more glamourous but easier assignment as the "closer" to protect leads. But I'm pretty sure the Mets will use them 8th, 9th like that. DocTee Dec 11 2008 09:56 AM With the Mets nabbing the two most attractive closers on the market, asking prices for Fuentes, Valverde, Lyon and others just exploded. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 10:04 AM Putz is likely a one-year Met. Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Perhaps they'll trade him to someone who'll let him close, but more likely he'll be a free agent after the 2009 season. TransMonk Dec 11 2008 10:11 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3rsmur6s]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:3rsmur6s] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:05 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. $8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million. ]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first. Centerfield Dec 11 2008 11:08 AM ="TransMonk":1ajjkucg] ="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Check out Jeremy Reed[/url:1l9kzq28]'s most comparable at age 25 and 6th most comparable at 27.

[bmfc1]

More on the trade here:
http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/2008/12/11/on-putz-and-friends/

Hyde also has it that Reed is a younger version of Endy. Thanks for the link, JCF.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Bruce Boisclair No. 7 most similar overall. If this cat wasn't born to be a Met I dunno who was.

Serioiusly, I have no idea if he has any shot at being good again, but I like getting bench guys in their 20s for bench guys in their 30s. Good idea at any rate.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Reed, I assume, competes with Evans for the fifth outfielder spot.

Barring further deals, the outfield looks like Beltran, Church, Tatis, Murphy and Evans or Reed.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Sean Green (wasn't he our right fielder a few years ago?) doesn't help the LOOGY/ROOGY situation[/url:2zfs2xm9]: lefties basically become Derrek Lee against him, but he's off the charts on the GB/FB ratio and does a good job against righties.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

He's Joe Smith with a more common name (in Met terms).

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Mets made a trade where they picked up three guys, none of whom are Hispanic.

Omar's critics who think he's racist won't take note of this, of course.

[Vic Sage]

="Gwreck":gb33zp1i]Final tally: We are giving up: Heilman Smith Chavez Jason Vargas Mike Carp Ezequiel Carera Maikel Cleto Getting: Putz Reed Green[/quote:gb33zp1i] - Chavez and Smith for Reed and Green is a wash, more or less. - Putz for Heilman is a major upgrade, at a cost of 4 non-key prospects that were not going to have any role on the major league level for a few years (if ever). The TiTTS say "yea, verily, yea"

Gwreck Dec 11 2008 09:20 AM

="Benjamin Grimm":2d1mi4lq]The Mets made a trade where they picked up three guys, none of whom are Hispanic. Omar's critics who think he's racist won't take note of this, of course.[/quote:2d1mi4lq] I didn't think we had any of those "critics" here. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 09:23 AM I like this move more the more I think about it. Now, if they'd only use Putz as a relief ace instead of the 8th inning guy... John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 09:54 AM I'd love it if they'd be more fluid, if not as a McDowell-Orosco kinda swappy closer thing than maybe Putz gets actual "fireman" status -- use him whenever the game is on the line -- with Rodriguez getting the more glamourous but easier assignment as the "closer" to protect leads. But I'm pretty sure the Mets will use them 8th, 9th like that. DocTee Dec 11 2008 09:56 AM With the Mets nabbing the two most attractive closers on the market, asking prices for Fuentes, Valverde, Lyon and others just exploded. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 10:04 AM Putz is likely a one-year Met. Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Perhaps they'll trade him to someone who'll let him close, but more likely he'll be a free agent after the 2009 season. TransMonk Dec 11 2008 10:11 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3rsmur6s]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:3rsmur6s] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:05 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. $8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million. ]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first. Centerfield Dec 11 2008 11:08 AM ="TransMonk":1ajjkucg] ="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Gwreck]

="Benjamin Grimm":2d1mi4lq]The Mets made a trade where they picked up three guys, none of whom are Hispanic. Omar's critics who think he's racist won't take note of this, of course.[/quote:2d1mi4lq] I didn't think we had any of those "critics" here.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 09:23 AM

I like this move more the more I think about it. Now, if they'd only use Putz as a relief ace instead of the 8th inning guy...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 09:54 AM

I'd love it if they'd be more fluid, if not as a McDowell-Orosco kinda swappy closer thing than maybe Putz gets actual "fireman" status -- use him whenever the game is on the line -- with Rodriguez getting the more glamourous but easier assignment as the "closer" to protect leads. But I'm pretty sure the Mets will use them 8th, 9th like that.

DocTee Dec 11 2008 09:56 AM

With the Mets nabbing the two most attractive closers on the market, asking prices for Fuentes, Valverde, Lyon and others just exploded.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 10:04 AM

Putz is likely a one-year Met. Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Perhaps they'll trade him to someone who'll let him close, but more likely he'll be a free agent after the 2009 season.

TransMonk Dec 11 2008 10:11 AM

="Benjamin Grimm":3rsmur6s]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:3rsmur6s] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:05 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. $8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million. ]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first. Centerfield Dec 11 2008 11:08 AM ="TransMonk":1ajjkucg] ="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

I like this move more the more I think about it. Now, if they'd only use Putz as a relief ace instead of the 8th inning guy...

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd love it if they'd be more fluid, if not as a McDowell-Orosco kinda swappy closer thing than maybe Putz gets actual "fireman" status -- use him whenever the game is on the line -- with Rodriguez getting the more glamourous but easier assignment as the "closer" to protect leads.

But I'm pretty sure the Mets will use them 8th, 9th like that.

[DocTee]

With the Mets nabbing the two most attractive closers on the market, asking prices for Fuentes, Valverde, Lyon and others just exploded.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Putz is likely a one-year Met.

Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Perhaps they'll trade him to someone who'll let him close, but more likely he'll be a free agent after the 2009 season.

[TransMonk]

="Benjamin Grimm":3rsmur6s]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:3rsmur6s] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.

Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:05 AM

="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. $8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million. ]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first.

Centerfield Dec 11 2008 11:08 AM

="TransMonk":1ajjkucg] ="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Gwreck]

="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million.

$8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million.

]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy.

Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first.

[Centerfield]

="TransMonk":1ajjkucg] ="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM

Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009.

Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM

I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.

Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM

="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first.

As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009.

[Vic Sage]

I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.

[Gwreck]

="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis?

86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM

I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy.

metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM

of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question.

metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM

] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen."

Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM

Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save.

Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM

Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami.

metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM

] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team.

Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM

"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was.

Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM

I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM

="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy.

[metsmarathon]

of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin...

but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question.