Yorvit. Yorvit all to hell!

[Guest Edgy DC]

metsmarathon wrote: yorvit torrealba, 3.2 wins above replacement paul lo duca, 2.6 wins above replacement granted... yorvit torrealba, 6 win shares paul lo duca, 8 win shares so... who knows.

Either one of those gaps sould have meant the division for the Mets.

We just have to make sure we pick the right gap.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Admittedly this is a stretch, but the best spin I could put on replacing LoDuca with Torrealba is to view their age-seasons alongside one another.

LoDuca didn't have his real "breakout" 140 OPS+ until he was 29, and had a decent five-year run following that. Until that year, he'd been a part-timer and a minor leaguer.

Torrealba will have his age 29 season (30 & 31 too) for us and while I can't come up with a good reason to expect his production will take a similar rise that LoDuca's did, in the event it does, he's ours.

I will also say there is too much made of home/road splits at this point. He was better away in 2006, not that that means anything.

Willie in today's Snooze damned the whole class with this feint praise: "There's not a lot of Johnny Benches out there."

[metirish]

No Willie is less than impressed with the throwing ability of any available catchers.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Few catchers even get off the options ride until 27 these days.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]My feelings about LoDuca are... complex. LoDuca can do that. He can inspire contrasting feelings in the same thread starter. Regarding the same topic even. http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2828&highlight= http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/3400/f1_t3461.shtml

Faith and Fear sums up the LoDucambiguity.

[metsmarathon]

Nymr83 wrote: does one take ballpark into effect while the other doesnt? torrealba played in the best hitter's park in the league while shea is a pitcher's park

warp is adjusted for season:

]Statistics that have been adjusted for a single season are the best stats to use when you are only interested in that one season. In these, adjustments have been made to account for the home park and for the offensive level of the league as a whole. Hitters have an adjustment for not having to face their own team's pitchers; pitchers have a similar adjustment for not having to face their own hitters. Hitters in the AL since 1973 have a disadvantage in these statistics, since the league average is artificially inflated by the use of the DH and no adjustment is made for that.

win shares, i believe, needn't be, as they represent a portion of a team's overall wins/production.

]Win Shares is a very complicated statistic that takes all the contributions a player makes toward his team�s wins and distills them into a single number that represents the number of wins contributed to the team, times three.

[duan]

there's been lots of whinging about Torreabla's arm, but before his shoulder problems at the start of this season, he'd thrown out nearly 40% of baserunners against him. I don't necessarily buy this whole great at calling and blocking stuff, however, I'm willing to imagine that there's actually more to it then sabremetrics might tell ya and if the greatest single item which influences the winning/losing of a game is the pitching then there is a value attributable to that. Not sure it'd make up for having Rey Ordonez in the lineup though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Wouldn't mind he provide a little of this:

[Willets Point]

Is that an Artemis Fowl reference in the title?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Charleton Heston.

[RealityChuck]

Let's face it -- we're exchanging one mediocre catcher for another. Paul is a great guy and works hard, but his results last year were disappointing. If we were looking for a #2 hitter, then he'd be a better choice, but he wouldn't necessarily be a good one.

Yes, it would have been nice to pick up a top-notch catcher, but there are none to be had. It's dumb to waste prospects on a catcher, especially since we need other positions more (and we don't have a lot of desirable prospects right now).

So instead of an old mediocre catcher, we have a young mediocre catcher (who will almost certainly put up better numbers than LoDuca over the three years). But since the team is planning to bat the catcher in the 8 hole, offensive ability is not going to matter that much.

[Guest Edgy DC]

RealityChuck wrote: It's dumb to waste prospects on a catcher, especially since we need other positions more (and we don't have a lot of desirable prospects right now).

Well, it depends on the prospects. As much as I'm a trade hater, it's worth noting that the two prospects we gave up for LoDuca, Dante Brinkley and Gaby Hernandez, haven't yet logged a single appearance between them above the AA level.

[metsmarathon]

torrealba had a more better than his backup CERA than did lo duca. both had about the same CERA.

CERA

torrealba / iannetta -- 4.12 / 4.71
lo duca / castro -- 4.13 / 4.27

i don't know if that's worth anything...

also, relative to his backup, opposing baserunners attempted fewer stolen bases against torrealba than lo duca.

SBA/G

torrealba / iannetta -- 0.71 / 0.74
lo duca / castro -- 0.82 / 0.79

but those are fairly slim differences there, i think....

[Guest Edgy DC]

The real question is whether his shoulder ailment is a permanent loss.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

I'm down with Yorman+Victor.

[smg58]

Giving Castro more AB's will probably make up the difference in offense, although it will also probably negate the advantage in defense. So it's a push. Given LoDuca's age, getting Yorvit is a safer bet to break even. But we'll only break even at second, too. Let's hope Omar finds a pitcher...

[metirish]

Omar needs to get Micah Owings, he can hit and catch when he's not pitching.

[MFS62]

metirish wrote: Omar needs to get Micah Owings, he can hit and catch when he's not pitching.

Does he sell tickets prior to, peddle beer during, and sweep out the stadium after, games? And then help little old ladies across the street on the way home?
If so, he might be the next Derek Jeter.

Later

[Elster88]

So this was called off right?

[A Boy Named Seo]

Yes.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yorvit resigns with the Rockies for two years.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Strangely, "the News has learned" that Torrealba didn't fail any physical. They pitch that as a scoop without really saying what made the Mets pull out so abruptly. I guess they just sniffed the Mota-Estrada deal and fell out of love with Yorvit.

[soupcan]

Edgy DC wrote: I guess they just sniffed the Mota-Estrada deal and fell out of love with Yorvit.

Is what I'm thinking as well.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Snoozeday:

]The reason for the sudden collapse of Yorvit Torrealba's deal with the Mets has been a closely guarded secret the past two weeks. The team insisted that Torrealba failed a physical, but his agent, Melvin Roman, disputed that last night and said Torrealba might take legal action against the Mets for what he asserts is a fraudulent claim. "I'm disappointed how the whole situation was handled by them," Roman said. "Yorvit is 100 percent healthy. I'm talking to the Players Association and we're investigating where to go from here." Torrealba finalized a two-year contract worth a guaranteed $7.25 million yesterday to return to the Rockies, who apparently have no health concerns involving him. But the Mets scuttled their three-year, $14.4-million deal with Torrealba because of what the team said is a 50 percent tear of the rotator cuff. Roman said Torrealba was examined by the Rockies' team physician and orthopedist James Andrews, who did not find any sign of a tear. Torrealba's camp believes that general manager Omar Minaya changed his mind. Minaya had no comment.