Its Milledge Time

[Elster88]

HahnSolo wrote: So Steve Kline wants to lecture us about what players should and should not do? Isn't this the bum who once flipped the bird at his own manager from the bullpen when he didn't get the call?

So ignore Steve Kline because he gave LaRussa the bird. Cliff Floyd and Willie Randolph also said it shouldn't be done. Are you going to ignore their opinion because Steve Kline once gave LaRussa the finger? Seriously, what's your opinion on the issue, Steve Kline's antics aside?

[Vic Sage]

]I tend to be a baseball purist about many things. But this isn't one of them. It was a one time demonstration of youthful exuberance. That's all. The kid had just hit his first major league home run. Cut him some slack and let him enjoy it.

i agree with '62.

I watched this happen and was completely happy about it, as were the fans along the sidelines who'll remember the day they high-fived Milledge in his rookie season, after he hit the 1st of his 413 lifetime HRs.

All the kid was doing was saying "thank you" to the fans as he ran out to his position between innings, excited after a once-in-a-lifetime accomplishment that also tied the game in the bottom of the 9th.

His gesture had nothing at all to do with the other team or showing up anybody. As edgy said, athletes are so competitive they'll find offense here, so i don't really care what the Giants think about it. Similarly, i'm sure the old-schoolers in the Mets dugout didn't appreciate what they perceived as provocation that might rain beanballs their way, or another example of what they probably see as a too-cocky rookie who should just hang his head and carry their bags. So, frankly, i don't give a shit about what they think either.

In fact, i think MORE players should say "thank you", and not be berated for it by their teammates.

As a fan, I would have absolutely no problem with Bonds high-fiving his fans at PacBell on his way out to LF after a particularly notable accomplishment. If he did it after every HR, it would seem kind of lame, and eventually irritating, but for a special moment? Why not? Its between him and the fans.

However, if he showboats and gets all demonstrative DURING THE INNING, flipping the bat, watching it go out, pointing at the pitcher, or saluting and waving to the fans (or doffing his cap) AS he rounds the bases, running slowly or backwards, etc., then I'd have a different view, because that DOES implicate the other team, requiring them to stand and watch him gesticulate at their expense while they're still on the field of play and trying to win.

By the way, i have absolutely no use at all for the end zone dances in football, or rim-hanging, airplaning stuff after a slam dunk in basketball. Those gestures are not recognizing the fans' appreciation or saying "thank you", its saying "ain't i great" and "take THAT, M-----F---er". Even the Lambeau Leap is done right in the face of the other team, in their end zone, right after a score. If, however, a Green Bay receiver just caught his first career touchdown pass and jumped into the stands between quarters, or during a timeout, in his OWN endzone, to celebrate for a moment with the fans, i wouldn't have a problem with it. And that's what Milledge did.

Now, of course, you may see this as an arbitrary distinction, but i don't think it is. Certain gestures are appreciative, other self-aggrandizing. Some are done on a players own time, in his own territory, and others are done in the face of his opponents in the middle of play. Some celebrate uniquely emotional accomplishments, others are the routine habits of a bad sport.

That M&MD also approved of Milledge's gesture certainly gives me pause, but even blind pigs can find a truffle now and again.

[Elster88]

Vic Sage wrote: That M&MD also approved of Milledge's gesture certainly gives me pause, but even blind pigs can find a truffle now and again.

Actually Mike and Mike. M&MD won't be on until 1.

[seawolf17]

What Vic said, much better than I could have.

[Centerfield]

I didn't have any problem with him slapping fans high-5 on the way out. It is, as Vic said, much better than if he were to showboat around the bases or stand and admire it.

What I didn't like was the way he failed to bring the runner in from 3rd in the 8th inning.

[Vic Sage]

]Actually Mike and Mike. M&MD won't be on until 1

i heard Francesa talking about it on "Miked Up" last night, so thats why i thought it was M&MD. but i had the same thought listening to Francesa agree with me last night... i had to reconsider for a moment, but then i decided "no, just because he agrees with me on this doesn't mean i'm wrong".

[Elster88]

I think there are two seperate issues here.

One is, was it a big deal yesterday? I don't think so either. He did it cuz he got excited and all that.

Two is, should it be a regular thing? I answer this one with an emphatic no.

[Vic Sage]

Elster88 wrote: One is, was it a big deal yesterday? I don't think so either. He did it cuz he got excited and all that.

So, you don't think a guy's 1st career HR, hit in the bottom of the 9th, with 2 outs and 2 strikes, that ties up the game and sends it into extra innings, is a big deal for a rookie?

Wow. You're strict.
Were you my 10th grade geometry teacher?

[Elster88]

Should I really rephrase or are you just breaking balls?

[Vic Sage]

the way i read your post, i thought you were saying you didn't think his accomplishment was a big deal.

However, if you were just saying that you didn't think his REACTION to his accomplishment was a big deal, then i'm sorry for ball breakage.

[Elster88]

Yup, the second....I don't think, as a one-time thing, that it was a big deal that he high fived the crowd. No apologies necessary.

Edit: Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

[Guest silverdsl]

I don't like when players showboat or show up the other team on a regular basis but this is a rookie enthusiastically celebrating his first homerun. A few others have mentioned the fans and how Milledge shared his excitment with them - I can't criticize him for that. I wish more players drew the fans into the game a little more. There are some players who make an effort, but there are so many who do everything they can to put as much distance between themselves and the fans as possible. Unless he makes a habit of showboating or being disruptive, I don't think he did anything so terrible. I think it's a little unfortunate that the unwritten rules and culture of the game are such that a rookie's overwhelming excitement about his first homerun can be viewed as a negative.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

My issue isn't the act so much as his, and the fans', inability to recognize it as something that could justifiably be interpreted as showboating.

Agreed with whoever said his failure to get in a 1-out run from 3rd was a much bigger offense -- also to be forgiven.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Vin Scully is reporting that Billy Wagner made him high-five everybody aboard the Mets airplane.

[Elster88]

Ed Coleman reported it too.

Here's a question. Who else thinks Reyes' little dance could be construed as taunting by baseball's "unwritten rules"?

After Reyes' homer yesterday he did it in the dugout...so maybe then the other team wouldn't care. But when Delgado hit his, he and Delgado did it at the top step. They've been doing it all year, and I can't remember Keith remarking on it.

Maybe it doesn't break baseball's unwritten taunting rules because it's at or near the dugout? From what I've heard over the years about showing up a pitcher, that silly dance would qualify as something that earns you a fastball in your ear.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The dugout is private space, by my estimating. Even if the camera is pointing at you, and even if you're on the top step, you're permitted to be yourself in the dugout. People pay attention to the field, 99% of the time.

Another key difference is accepting the celebration once you get back to your compatriots, rather than starting it yourself when it's just you and the vanquished on the field.

Carlton Fisk should write a book on baseball ettiquette.

This isn't just baseball. This all goes back. A big theme in Beowulf --- though largely added later by Christian translators --- is the importance of Beowulf staying humble as he vanquishes the enemy.

Wilpon here is the king, ready to say,

"Now, O Beowulf (Milledge), greatest of fighters, henceforth will I love thee as a son. No wish of thine but I will grant it to thee, if it be in my power.

"Full oft of yore have I for lesser deeds given great rewards. Treasure and honour have I heaped upon knights less brave than thou (Cedeño), less mighty in war. But thou by thy deeds hast made for thyself a glorious name which shall never be forgotten."

Cliffy is Hrothgar, the aging warrior, who knew Beowulf's father, and reminds the young hero not to focus on the glory of battle, but rather to trust in God and to be generous and humble.

And I think we even have perhaps a 1986 Met, maybe Darryl Strawberry, in Heremond. a great warrior of yore we learn of, who once acocmplished feats as great as young Beowulf, but lost his humility and went on drunken tears, even killing a drinking friend.

Wow. It looks like a lot is at stake here.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Wow.

Me, I don't know Beowulf from seawolf, but I think Edgy can make some very literate banners for his next trip to Shea.

I also remember Tim McCarver, during the telecast of 1986 NLCS Game 6, comparing the game to Beowulf.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

="Edgy DC"]The dugout is private space, by my estimating. Even if the camera is pointing at you, and even if you're on the top step, you're permitted to be yourself in the dugout. People pay attention to the field, 99% of the time. Another key difference is accepting the celebration once you get back to your compatriots, rather than starting it yourself when it's just you and the vanquished on the field. Carlton Fisk should write a book on baseball ettiquette. This isn't just baseball. This all goes back. A big theme in Beowulf --- though largely added later by Christian translators --- is the importance of Beowulf staying humble as he vanquishes the enemy. Wilpon here is the king, ready to say, "Now, O Beowulf (Milledge), greatest of fighters, henceforth will I love thee as a son. No wish of thine but I will grant it to thee, if it be in my power. "Full oft of yore have I for lesser deeds given great rewards. Treasure and honour have I heaped upon knights less brave than thou (Cedeño), less mighty in war. But thou by thy deeds hast made for thyself a glorious name which shall never be forgotten." Cliffy is Hrothgar, the aging warrior, who knew Beowulf's father, and reminds the young hero not to focus on the glory of battle, but rather to trust in God and to be generous and humble. And I think we even have perhaps a 1986 Met, maybe Darryl Strawberry, in Heremond. a great warrior of yore we learn of, who once acocmplished feats as great as young Beowulf, but lost his humility and went on drunken tears, even killing a drinking friend. Wow. It looks like a lot is at stake here.

Bullet of cool.

Have any of you played on a team where your opponent makes a show of beating you? It is one thing to lose an athletic competition on merit but little IMO is uglier than a graceless winner.

Yeah, I understand Milledge didn't know, great to be fan-friendly, yyy...bbb... etc ...

eh. Read edgy's post instead

[seawolf17]

See, the thing I don't get is how he "made a show of" anything. He didn't point at the other team, didn't hold up the game, didn't grandstand, didn't stop and sign autographs, didn't run into the stands and buy a hot dog, didn't moon the Giants' dugout. He just slapped some hands on his way out. I don't even think he slowed down in his trot out there; he just took a slight detour. Big frigging whoop.

[Elster88]

Agree with everything. My only nitpicking is that he did pretty much walk down the line. My guess is he would've jogged out to right otherwise.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't see the big deal either.

Somebody should write down all these unwritten rules.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, his trot was somewhat showy also.



(Is Bobby Hill our leftfield batboy?)

The point is that the extended high fives extendedly underscores his performance while the game is still tied, tense, and in extra innings. Finish the job, then do the gladhanding.

[Centerfield]

How did Wilpon become King? I didn't vote for him.

[Elster88]

Since when do Kings ask for votes?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't see the big deal either. Somebody should write down all these unwritten rules.

At the risk of beating this thing to death, I don't believe expecting your opponent to keep celebrations from being excessive or demonstrative during the game is an "unwritten rule" in the same sense of "don't steal while up by 10" or "don;t bunt during a no-hitter" or other dubious, strategy-driven rules are.

[soupcan]

Greg's got an interesting take on it...

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mr. Cross-Bearin'-Tobacco-Chewin-Fly-Droppin'-Parent-Heartbreakin'-Braid-Wearin'-GM's-Son-Spikin'-High-Fivin' Rookie leading off today?

[Gwreck]

Tough call. Assuming that both Floyd and Reyes are out again, I'd say it's 50/50, with perhaps Willie putting Chavez there.

(Personally, I say yes, put him leading off).

[Elster88]

Caple's on Milledge-Silly

By Jim Caple
Page 2


"I had a little conversation with him about that. I told him to tone it down a little bit. He got excited about his first big home run. Wouldn't you? I talked to him about it -- it won't happen again."
-- Mets manager Willie Randolph on rookie Lastings Milledge high-fiving fans along the right-field line when he took his position after hitting his first career home run to tie a game in extra innings


Oh, if only we could have been a fly on the wall of the manager's office …
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastings Milledge reluctantly knocked on his manager's door and looked inside. "You wanted to see me, Skip?"

"Yeah, Rook," Willie Randolph said. "Grab a seat. We need to talk."

Milledge took a seat, and Randolph tossed a thick book into the rookie's lap. Milledge picked it up and leafed through it quickly.

"You know what that is, Rook?" Randolph asked.

"Sorry, Skip -- I don't. It's blank. There isn't a single word printed on the cover or on any page."

"Those are baseball's unwritten rules. Memorize them, Rook. And I mean now. You're not in the minors anymore. You're a big leaguer. Time to start acting like one. I don't want to see any more displays like today's."

Milledge closed the book. "People keep bringing that up but I don't know what I did wrong. All I did was celebrate a little."

"Celebrate? Is that what you call showing up your opponents?"

"How did I show anyone up? I just slapped hands with fans when I ran out to the field."

"You were drawing attention to yourself. That's in direct violation of Unwritten Rule 6.08 (d). It's on page 58. Right between the rule against bunting to break up a no-hitter and the subsection on owning at least three luxury SUVs that get less than 12 miles to the gallon each."

Milledge hurriedly glanced through the book again."Page 58? How do you know? There aren't even page numbers in this thing. Besides, so what if I called attention to myself? How is that any different from guys like Barry Bonds and David Ortiz stopping at home plate and pointing up to the sky after a home run? Isn't that drawing attention to yourself?"

"Apples and oranges, Rook. Apples and oranges."

"How? How is it different?"

"It's different, Rook, because they're them and you're you. Look, let me spell it out for you. When they do it, it's OK, and when you do it, it isn't. Capiche?"

"Not really. But when do I earn the right to make a gesture at home plate to honor my God or a deceased family member?"

"Generally speaking, as soon as you're eligible for arbitration."

Milledge stared at Randolph, expecting him to smile to show he was kidding about the whole thing. But his manager didn't smile. He was dead serious.

"C'mon, Skip, be real," Milledge said. "What's the big deal? It's not as if I stopped and signed an autograph like T.O. did."

A look of horror flashed across Randolph's face. "Don't go there, Rook. Don't even suggest such a thing."

"Why? Does signing autographs violate another one of baseball's unwritten rules?"

"No. But big leaguers never sign autographs for free. The standard appearance fee for a card show is $10,000 minimum. And that's for flat items only. They want a ball or a bat signed, they pay extra. No exceptions. Trust me, you sign a bat for one 9-year-old with cancer and pretty soon they all want it gratis."

Milledge paused briefly as he thought everything over.

"I still don't see what was so wrong," he said. "I had a good time, yeah, but more importantly the fans had a good time. They were cheering me and I showed my appreciation. I thought that's what we were supposed to do -- entertain the fans. Show we care. People say it was special when Cal Ripken Jr. reached out to the fans during his victory lap after breaking Lou Gehrig's record. But why should it be a special occasion? Shouldn't we connect with fans every game? Shouldn't we always shake their hands and thank them for supporting us through thick and thin, through steadily increasing ticket prices and stadium blackmail? Aren't we supposed to be bringing young fans to the game? Aren't we supposed to make the fans smile?"

"Nah, that's what we got Mr. Met for," Randolph replied. "You, however, are supposed to shut up and go about your business like all the other rookies. You're supposed to play the game, come into the clubhouse, turn up the stereo system to 11, sit in the lunchroom watching highlights on "SportsCenter" until the writers have to leave because they're on deadline and then go out to a strip joint to wind down.

"What you're not supposed to do is make a fool of yourself. You're supposed to show the game respect. Got that?"

Milledge nodded.

"Good," Randolph said, pulling something out of his desk drawer. "Now, go slip into this cheerleaders skirt and nylon stockings. It's rookie hazing day and we've got a flight to catch."

BOX SCORE LINE OF THE WEEK
When Jamie Moyer was a rookie in 1986, he threw a two-hitter against the Expos. It took him only 20 years and seven organizations, but he finally threw another one last Friday to shut out the Royals 4-0 in two hours. His line:

9 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

At 43, he is the oldest pitcher to throw a complete game shutout since Charlie Hough in 1994.

Jim Caple is a senior writer for ESPN.com. You can reach Jim at jimcaple.com. Sound off to Page 2 here.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Caple miss point.

Not 'bout secret rulez.

Not 'bout pointing at sky.

Mongo mad.