Its Milledge Time

[Frayed Knot]

I was surprised and a bit disturbed by the display.

On the other hand, for a first ML HR in a game-tying/2-out/2-strike situation it can be written off as youthful exuberence w/o getting too bad of a rep.
Shouldn't happen again though and it sounds like he might know that now.

[nymr83]

fuck this "it shouldnt happen" crap. the game is for the FANS, i bet the FANS who were there today loved it. some little kid on the first base line had his day made by a major leaguer giving him a high five...but oh lets not offend the fragile ego of the guys who gave it up..

[A Boy Named Seo]

]I was surprised and a bit disturbed by the display.

I was surprised, too, but in a good way. Why were you disturbed?



If the guns in the picture above were pointed at the Giants dugout or the pitcher or something, I could understand peeps feathers getting ruffled. But a player exchaning fives with the fans between innings after a huge play, I think is rare and exciting and makes for a fun time at the park for the crowd. It's geniune fan interaction and I think it breaks down the somewhat impersonal barrier you see between fan and player nowadays. I don't remember seeing a player do that before, but it feels kinda old school like the high socks.

[Frayed Knot]

It shouldn't happen regularly because the game is still going on at that point and it's an act that reeks of an athlete celebrating himself.

[nymr83]

it didnt interrupt the game going on though... if it had caused the inning to be delayed or anything i'd agree that it was 100% inappropriate

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

It's showing up the opponent. It's not sportsmanlike or professional.

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: fuck this "it shouldnt happen" crap. the game is for the FANS, i bet the FANS who were there today loved it. some little kid on the first base line had his day made by a major leaguer giving him a high five...but oh lets not offend the fragile ego of the guys who gave it up..

Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've.

[Guest SI Metman]

If this were the 60's, Bob Gibson would have planted one right between his eyes on the next day.

Yes, Milledge was out of line, and Mets fans wouldn't be thrilled if it were Francoeurr doing it in Atlanta during a Mets-Braves game. Lets see how they like it later this month when we face Manny and Papi.

[nymr83]

]Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've.

if pedro feliz had done this at pac-bell i wouldnt give a fuck. i hate bonds and everything he does anyway.

[seawolf17]

I enjoyed it; I agree completely with nymr.

[MFS62]

It was a once in a lifetime experience for the kid - his first major league homer. Let him celebrate a little if it doesn't effect the flow of the game.

Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds?

Is baseball the sport that considers itself to be FAN-tastic? (I forgot)
Well those young fans with whom he exchanged high fives will never forget that moment.

Baseball is losing its popularity to football. In Green Bay players dive into the stands after a touchdown. Maybe if more baseball players gave high fives some of those young fans would come back.

Later

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Nymr83 wrote: ]Please. You would have been pissed if it Barry Bonds had done that at Pac Bell after tying the game off Wagner. Just like any other Met fan would've. if pedro feliz had done this at pac-bell i wouldnt give a fuck. i hate bonds and everything he does anyway.

But had Pedro Feliz had done it at Pac Bell, the Mets would have been mad, and justifiably so.

It's not professional to behave in a way that would be interpreted as showing up the opponent. How hard is that to understand?

Sportsmanship. Didn't your gym teacher or little league coach go over this with you when you were 7? Were you too busy booing?

[Elster88]

MFS62 wrote: Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds?

I don't think it makes sense to compare Willie playing with the kids outside the park to what Milledge did.

[Guest Edgy DC]

An important part of this is, SportsCenter being what it is, that even though the Mets are done with the Giants (until October, anyway), there's a lot of other players in the league who saw this premature display in a game the Mets --- HA! --- lost. They all have one less reason to care, if they're down by six and twelve games out in September, if a few of their pitches get away from them against the Mets.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

MFS62 wrote: It was a once in a lifetime experience for the kid - his first major league homer. Let him celebrate a little if it doesn't effect the flow of the game. Willie told him that kind of behavior shouldn't be a regular thing. I wonder if he would have told Willie Mays not to play stickball with the neighborhood kids outside the Polo Grounds? Is baseball the sport that considers itself to be FAN-tastic? (I forgot) Well those young fans with whom he exchanged high fives will never forget that moment. Baseball is losing its popularity to football. In Green Bay players dive into the stands after a touchdown. Maybe if more baseball players gave high fives some of those young fans would come back. Later

Don't think you have that any wronger.

End-zone celebrations in football are a complete FU to sportsmanship and counter to Paterno's admonition that his guys "act like they've been there before." Green Bay would sell out their stadium every week if Brett Farve took a dump in the end zone and flinged it all over the first three rows. Showboating after touchdowns has nothing to do with the sport's popularity.

And fans at Shea would be just as pleased had Milledge politely tipped his cap on his way out, as a professional would. And a guy's behavior in the middle of game has absolutely zero to do with what Willie Mays did after a game. The fair comparison would be to ask how'd the Say hey Kid react after a big home run?

Did he rub it in the opposing pitcher's/fans face with antics, or did he just go about his business and act like he's done it before?

[MFS62]

He didn't rub it in anybody's face. He didn't stand there and admire his home run, then fling his bat and do a showboat trot. He didn't point at the pitcher. He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players.
He demonstrated some boyish enthusiasm by returning the love the fans in right field were showering on him.

BTW- both Mikes on ESPN radio agreed with me this morning, and even used the Green Bay dive analogy. They said it was different from a football player taunting another player by standing over him and/or pointing. They went on to say that baseball has too many "unwritten rules" and this was an example of how silly some of them are.

They drew the anaolgy with Sammy Sosa leading cheers by fans in the right field stands in Wrigley when he went out to take his position between innings. The intent was to get the fans into the game, not to show up the other team. This was between innings, not a game interrupting thing.

I tend to be a baseball purist about many things. But this isn't one of them. It was a one time demonstration of youthful exuberance. That's all. The kid had just hit his first major league home run. Cut him some slack and let him enjoy it.

Later

[Elster88]

Running down the aisle high-fiving the fans is huge in the WWF, too. As much as PiazzaFan might like that, I think baseball and WWF should have as few similarities as possible.

[Elster88]

I want to point out that I don't think it's a big deal for Milledge. He was already apologetic after the game, Willie and some of the veterans are going to talk to him, and even the Giants seemed to chalk it up to youthful enthusiasm.

I am arguing against the mentality that what he did is okay.

[Elster88]

]He didn't rub it in anybody's face. He didn't stand there and admire his home run, then fling his bat and do a showboat trot. He didn't point at the pitcher. He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players. He demonstrated some boyish enthusiasm by returning the love the fans in right field were showering on him.

I don't understand why people think that high-fiving the crowd is different from all the other things that 62 mentions. I'll put the question to you that I posed to Nymr. If Bonds had done what Milledge did after the homer off Wagner, how would you have felt? How do you think Wagner would have felt? Nymr avoided the question entirely by saying it was okay for guys like Feliz and Milledge, but not for Bonds. IMHO, introducing a double standard answers the question.

="MFS62"]BTW- both Mikes on ESPN radio agreed with me this morning

Having those two agree with me would make me rethink my position. I'm glad they're taking the view that opposes mine.

[metirish]

Bill Madden was not impressed...

MFY Fan Not Happy


Check out Filepe Alou's quote..

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]He didn't do a lot of things that might be considered showboating/ insulting to the other team or one of its players.

How hard is it to understand sportsmanship? His manager and teammates were basically apologizing for his behavior.

If Mike & Mike say that football's popular because wide receivers celebrate touchdowns, they're idiots.

[seawolf17]

In the NBA, I've seen players high-fiving fans courtside after big dunks. You have the whole Lambeau Leap phenomenon. It didn't impede the game, he didn't show up anyone. I don't see a double standard; he's heading that way anyway out to right field, let him recognize the fans and let them recognize him. No different than if he'd tipped his cap and/or waved.

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: An important part of this is, SportsCenter being what it is, that even though the Mets are done with the Giants (until October, anyway), there's a lot of other players in the league who saw this premature display in a game the Mets --- HA! --- lost. They all have one less reason to care, if they're down by six and twelve games out in September, if a few of their pitches get away from them against the Mets.

Fine; then let them get away. I'm not saying the kid doesn't need a slice of humble pie; it's somewhat obvious that he's flashy.

But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out.

[metirish]

The main thing for me is that he won't do it again, it shouldn't be a big deal then.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out.

Yeah, with one championship, everybody in the league wanting to kill them, and their two best players sliding down the social scale from Met to Yankee to convict.. And even they knew there were standards.

This'll seem really cool until Carlos Delgado is decked by some Gorgon from the Washington bullpen.

I agree that it's not that big a big deal in and of itself.

[Elster88]

seawolf17 wrote: But you know, those '86 Mets were awfully cocky too. And we know how that turned out.

That turned out pretty terrible. Every non-Met fan hates that team. Darryl and Doc both went to rehab and jail, at least partly because they were taught to think they were the shit, to not listen to any veterans, and to think they could do whatever they wanted.

And the team only one won f'ing championship.

Cockiness is not really a good thing.

Edit: Edgy beat me to it.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]No different than if he'd tipped his cap and/or waved.

Bullshit. That distinction is exactly what this discussion is about.

[MFS62]

]If Bonds had done what Milledge did after the homer off Wagner, how would you have felt? How do you think Wagner would have felt?

If that had happened, I would have felt bad, not because of what he did, but because it tied a game my team looked like they were winning. But I would have been madder at that than what he did afterwards. He would be acknowledging the cheers of his fans, and I have no problem with that. I never took Sosa leading cheers between innings to get his fans into the game as insulting to anyone. What about when players on the bench start waving towels to get the fans going?

If another team or their fans took it that way, then they either don't understand the distiction between cheerleading and showing up the other team, or are very paranoid.

Later

[HahnSolo]

So Steve Kline wants to lecture us about what players should and should not do?
Isn't this the bum who once flipped the bird at his own manager from the bullpen when he didn't get the call?

[metirish]

Good memory HahnSolo, a quick Google search and I found it, this article on flipping the bird....

] ■ 2005: Washington State coach Dick Bennett flips the finger at Washington fans mocking his team for their slowdown tactics. “I made a mistake,” Bennett says. ■ 2003: Chicago White Sox relief pitcher Jose Paniagua makes the sign. He’s released. ■ 2002: Jason Kidd middle-fingers a fan. A report comes out that he middle-fingers “fans” — plural — and he clarifies. “It wasn’t directed toward all the fans,” he says. “Somebody had said something as I left the court. The gesture was for that individual.” ■ 2004: St. Louis pitcher Steve Kline offers the middle finger to his manager, Tony La Russa, for having him warm up and not pitch. ■ 1976: Houston Oilers coach Bum Phillips gives fans the one-finger gesture after his team beats the Saints in New Orleans: “I might have pointed out that we were still No. 1,” Bum says. ■ 2005: Cincinnati Reds reliever Danny Graves offers up a double middle finger to Reds fans after they deluge him with boos. He is traded to the Mets shortly afterward. ■ 1996: Los Angeles City Councilwoman Sandi Webb raises the middle finger to U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein after, according to the Los Angeles Daily News, “losing her temper over the senator’s gun-control stance.” I realize this isn’t sports, but it seems one of the rare moments when the right to bear arms has led to a shooting the bird.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13432682.htm