Non-clever poll on the Benson trade

[Elster88]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I hated that awful Lisa Kudrow show on HBO.

I figured it would suck, though I never watched it. She was by far the least funny from Friends.

[Guest cooby]

Yancy, I almost laughed in this guy's ear.

[Guest sharpie]

Well, I don't hate lima beans and I haven't seen the Lisa Kudrow show but I do hate freezing rain. Reading Edgy's "Being John Maine" thread makes me hate this trade less. I'm firmly in the dislike mode but if Maine ends up bumping Victor Zambrano from the rotation and Julio doesn't suck (gotta stop giving up those homers, Julio) then this one might work out 'cause I don't think Kris is ever going to be a world-beater.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I voted no opinion, but really indifferent would've been more appropriate.

I think under the criteria stated, that makes me a weenie, but trading a mediocre pitcher for a reliever who's pitched crappy, but has potential, and a 24-year old prospect who is major league ready doesn't seem like such a huge freaking catastrophe.

Benson's hole is already filled by someone who should be able to match his 175 IP and ERA over 4, and may even perform better than that. Julio may turn out to be a wonderful set-up man and if he doesn't, the Mets have a crapload of other relievers to turn to. John Maine looks like a fine, major league ready prospect.

Whatever.

And isn't waiting until 5 years later, when there's actually some data to examine, the better way to evaluate a trade anyway then getting all charged up and saying that a person who plays this position getting traded for a player who plays this position is an automatic hate?

[Elster88]

Weenie.


NOTE: This is meant in a light-hearted manner, as was the post where I stated "no opinion" voters are "weenies."

[Elster88]

="A Boy Named Seo"]And isn't waiting until 5 years later, when there's actually some data to examine, the better way to evaluate a trade anyway then getting all charged up and saying that a person who plays this position getting traded for a player who plays this position is an automatic hate?

Yes. Fortunately, I said "almost" an automatic hate.

Besides, this isn't a poll asking for scientific evaluation of a trade. This is a poll asking how do you feel right now about this trade, in order to stimulate conversation. Why bother with "no opinion"? Take a stand.

Unless you really are completely indifferent to having Maine and Julio instead of Benson in the Mets' organization? "Completely indifferent" meaning, if someone asked you (as GM) who you'd rather have, you'd flip a coin.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

True, it's easier to evaluate a trade with several years of hindsight. And I suppose it might be fun to post polls about transactions from five years ago. (I love the Kevin Appier signing! I hate the Kevin Appier signing!) But General Managers have to make the deals without benefit of hindsight, and I don't think it's unfair, after a deal is made, to give it an instant evaluation.

Some deals would probably get the same evaluation years later (Keith Hernandez) and others might get very different results. (Roberto Alomar.)

[Lundy]

I voted like. I like it that the Mets are more balanced team right now. Last year it got kind of crowded when Steve Trachsel came back. If in fact we're done dealing, it's a clear sign to Heilman that he's got a slot in the rotation. That's good. And I think Kris Benson is overvalued. He really hasn't pitched like a No.1 overall draft pick, either with the Pirates or the Mets. He's really been a mediocre pitcher who I think we're overvaluing because of his draft status and his attention-grabbing wife.

As for Jorge Julio--relivers get no respect. With starters going six innings max becoming the norm, their importance cannot be ignored. Whether or not he becomes the next Mel Rojas or the next Roberto Hernandez remain to be seen. But on paper, we're much better in the bullpen than last year. Add in John Maine, and what he can potentially give us, and I think it's a good deal.

[nymr83]

]As for Jorge Julio--relivers get no respect

his numbers DESERVE no respect.

[Elster88]

Lundy wrote: But on paper, we're much better in the bullpen than last year.

We are weaker in the bullpen after making this trade, as per the reasoning in CF's post at the top of this thread.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I cast the first "no opinion" vote, mainly for the reasons that BNS articulated above but also because this particular deal still seems to me as if its part off something else we don't know enough about yet.

Yeah, it's weenielike, but I know enough to know when I don't know enough.

Like, I can't figure out why they have Maine: It frankly seems un-Met-like to go get a young pitcher with optimistic upside for a veteran pitcher with predictability: They hardly ever go do a thing like that, and most often do the opposite. Now that they did, what are we to think? That they changed their outlook on the fly, that the ambition to create a pennant winner in Pedro's remaining effectiveness switched suddenly to a re-build mode? I'm not buying it.

Did they really need another arm in the pen? It seems, absent of another move, that all the Mets did was shift their overpopulation problem from the rotation to the pen -- again, makes little sense on the surface, which is why I'm almost sure there's more to come.

[metsmarathon]

so this trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one, replaced a very good arm in our bullpen with a talented if unproductive arm with more bullpen experience, and added a talented young starter.

so i think it may have made us a better, more well-rounded team.

my only source of displeasure is the notion that we traded kris benson for jorge julio, and that doesnt seem to be enough in return. but, of course, that's not the trade we made. we also got maine. and so that tempers my dislike.

i may even be moving onto the less-occupied side of neutral, with a healthy hoping that julio doesnt suck.

[Elster88]

]trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one

The addition of another starter has not been finalized yet. It ain't gonna be Zito.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]Didn't he once electrocute a small child in his swimming pool?

That was hilarious, Elster.

[metsmarathon]

Elster88 wrote: ]trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one The addition of another starter has not been finalized yet. It ain't gonna be Zito.

i believe heilman to be a better starter than benson. this trade freed heilman from the pen, giving him bensons slot in the rotation. there are no zito contingencies attached to my opinion.

[Elster88]

Heilman is a better starter than Benson based on what?

[metsmarathon]

pretend the above sentence is written in the future tense.

[Vic Sage]

hatehatehatehatehatehatehate... hate.

[seawolf17]

I don't think Norrin likes this deal.

[Theoldmole]

Is "no opinion" the same as "reserve judgment"? Anyway, that's what I put.

[Zvon]

This ones easy.
Dislike as it stands now.

[Elster88]

TheOldMole wrote: Is "no opinion" the same as "reserve judgment"? Anyway, that's what I put.

"No opinion" is the same as "I am a weenie."


NOTE: THE ABOVE LINE IS A JOKE. I IN NO WAY THINK THAT THEOLDMOLE IS A WEENIE, HOT DOG, KIELBASA, OR ANY OTHER SAUSAGE PRODUCT.

[nymr83]

no opinion is what you say when they trade heath bell for rick white....its just a who cares kind of trade. obviously you can reserve judgment but do you really not have an initial reaction abouthow it is going to turn out?

[Guest *62]

"Like".

This trade didn't happen in a vacuum ......... something else is around the corner, IMO.

[Theoldmole]

I like to think of myself as a cocktail weenie.

[Theoldmole]

Seriously, that's why I modified the language. I don't have no opinion; I am reserving judgment. I'll miss Anna. I'll miss having two pitchers that look like Tom Glavine. I hate it when anyone gets traded. But I don't know whether this will be a good or bad deal for the Mets.

I don't buy the "they're not through" reasoning, though. "Let's trade some of our good players for not-so-good players, because later we plan to trade our not-so-good players for good players"?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Polling options on trades for Mets fans

1) It's great

2) I love it

3) It's an improvement

4) It's very good

5) I reserve judgment--it's part of a bigger, smarter deal

6) it's so dumb that it's got to be part of a bigger, smarter deal so it's ok

7) It's so offensively, stupidly, moronically designed that it just HAS to be a prelude to the world's cleverest deal ever--I support it

[seawolf17]

Bret, less than a quarter of the people who voted in this poll are favorable towards this trade. So save your generalizations for another discussion.

[Frayed Knot]

Well depends on which generalizations he's referring to;
- the ones like this one where Met fans are mocked as relentlessly positive Kool-Aid drinkers
- or the ones (like from 4 days ago) where they're described as being conditioned towards negativity and given to "ignorant bashing"

Depends on the agenda du jour I suppose.

[Elster88]

metsmarathon wrote: pretend the above sentence is written in the future tense.

Huh? You lost me.

I'm just curious why you're thinking Heilman will be a better pitcher than Benson.