mets get delgado (apparently)

[nymr83]

thanks Elster, you beat me to it.
his month by month OPS from 2002-2004 according to espn.com:

Mar: .933 (3 at bats in 3 years)
Apr: .971
May: .934
Jun: .955
Jul: .895
Aug: .996
Sep: .1080
Oct: .944 (regular season only, 12 atbats in 3 years)

he seems to suffer from a poor july followed by an explosive aug/sep

[Valadius]

That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140.

[Elster88]

OTOH, maybe I shouldn't calm down. But my head is starting to hurt from the wall.

[seawolf17]

Valadius wrote: That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140.

Perhaps that's a factor of the guys in front of him "shitting the bed" after the ASB, not him. Either way... when was the last time we had a 1B who drove in 140 runs and had a September OPS over 1.000?

That would be never.

[Gwreck]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Anyone, nobody exercises that option, because it's potentially too costly.

I'm not sure what it will cost him, but didn't Javy Vazquez just recently excercise his "demand a trade" right?

[Guest old original jb]

Carlos Delgado [u:4f410bd342]will continue to be [/u:4f410bd342]a major run producer while I feel certain that Jacobs [u:4f410bd342]has the potential to become [/u:4f410bd342]one.

Therefore, having to face Delgdoa along with Floyd and Wright (while Reyes is wreaking havoc on the bases) will make pitching to the Mets something pitchers will dislike in a way that they would not if it were Jacobs instead of Delgado.

You have to give up quality to get quality, unless you are in a rotisserie league or writing WATPs. The Mets got away with giving up potential quality in exchange for known quality, and you can't do much better than that.

Bottom line: Delgado is a top tier player--of the caliber that has been rare on the Mets in recent years. I'll miss the kids, but I love this trade.

[metirish]

Val can you look at the second link I posted please?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits?year=career&type=Batting

[metsmarathon]

="seawolf17"] ="Valadius"]That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140. Perhaps that's a factor of the guys in front of him "shitting the bed" after the ASB, not him. Either way... when was the last time we had a 1B who drove in 140 runs and had a September OPS over 1.000? That would be never.

in 2003, he had 97 RBI at the break, and 48 after.
in 2000, he had 80 at the break, 57 after.
those are the only two seasons he really came close to what he always seems to do...

is it because he slumps late in the season? edit: the colored text is flat out wrong. wrong wrong wrong! i have discredited it myself, and i therefore no longer believe in it. i have no clue what i was thinking. as you were. well, it is fair to say that his second halves have typically been worse than his first halves. some years, that is not the case, but i would say that on average, since becoming a really good hitter, his OPS will drop by about 50 points post ASB.

but why then do his RBI totals drop so?

quite simply, its because there are about a month fewer games post ASB the pre ASB.

[Elster88]

Delgado's OPS

Pre All Star Break 2002 -- .861
Post All Star Break 2002 --- 1.100

Pre All Star Break 2003 -- 1.053
Post All Star Break 2003 -- .966

Pre All Star Break 2004 -- .746
Post All Star Break 2004 --- 1.033

Pre All Star Break 2005 -- .922
Post All Star Break 2005 --- 1.070

[metsmarathon]

ok, well that link contradicts my quicklook...

lets look at this (quickly again)

year pre post diff
2005 0.922 1.070 0.148
2004* 0.746 1.033 0.287
2003 1.053 0.966 -0.087
2002 0.861 1.100 0.239
2001 0.924 0.976 0.052
2000 1.185 1.068 -0.117
1999 0.844 1.104 0.260
1998 1.004 0.952 -0.052
1997 0.909 0.848 -0.061

avg 0.939 1.013 0.074
avg* 0.963 1.011 0.048 - omitting 2004 due to injury

well, heck. even if i get rid of 2004, forgiving his early season for injury, he's 40 points better post ASB. what the hell was i looking at earlier? musta just been the truly big years, i guess.

so, thus, any real concern that he's a post ASB fader should be readily dismissed looking at the above.

yippee, again.

[Frayed Knot]

]I'm not sure what it will cost him, but didn't Javy Vazquez just recently excercise his "demand a trade" right?

Yes, and numerous players over the years have used the right granted in the basic agreement to players dealt during a long-term contract and filed a demand to be traded. Some of those demands have resulted in a trade.
However (Yancy's point) every single player who was NOT dealt eventually withdrew their demand rather then losing out on the remainder of their current deal and risking FA-gency



I also heard Buck Martinez gush about Petit - and his opinion was MUCH more positive than anything I had heard/read anywhere.
He basically compared him to Felix Hernandez (Seattle's call-up from last summer) a comparison that seems almost foreign. Petit was lauded for his control and guile more than his "stuff" while scouts yakking about Hernandez couldn't get enough of how "nasty" his stuff was in addition to his control & pitching smarts. And, he was doing it at more advanced levels at a younger age than Petit. I think most evaluators would scoff at Buck's comparison. He also didn't help his credibility on the subject by describing Petit as a hard thrower, something he's definitely not.

[Elster88]

The White Sox just traded Aaron Rowand for Jim Thome.

Who made out better today, the Mets or the White Sox?

[Guest sharpie]

I take Delgado over Thome any time.

[Theoldmole]

Mets.

[DocTee]

My off-season scorecard has the Phils and Mets leading Bosox, Pale Hose and Fish (in that order).

[Guest Edgy DC]

Is criticism of this deal really really reduced to the notion that Delgado typically fails to get 200 RBIs?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Interesting paragraph from Marty Noble on MLB.com:

]The Mets' interest in dealing for Delgado, as opposed to Ramirez, came to light last week after Mike Cameron was traded to the Padres for Xavier Nady, who now is likely to play right field, at least against left-handed pitchers. Cameron was thought to be a player the Red Sox coveted and would need if free agent center fielder Johnny Damon didn't re-sign with them. With Cameron gone, the Mets seemingly would have to pay for a Ramirez trade with a package that would include outfield prospect Lastings Milledge, a player they hope to retain in anticipation of the expiration of Cliff Floyd's contract following next season.

The last clause of the final sentence is worth noting. Noble is a good reporter; I hope that's based on solid inside information.

[metirish]

Nice bit of info that,and it makes sence....and if Delgado still sits for God Bless America he'll have less of a chance at Shea....from Ken Davidoff at Newsday...

] Delgado also caused controversy in 2004, his final season with Toronto, when he revealed he refusal to stand during "God Bless America." The Mets play the song only on Sundays and holidays.

I don't think think he does it anymore anyway.

[smg58]

I know I'm late to most of this thread, but today has been hectic.

I like Delgado, and I'm glad he's here, but if winning now was so important why didn't we offer more money last year? We're basically paying the same money per year, for one less year (and he would have benefited the team enormously last year), and now we've given up two players we might miss later. It almost seems like an admission of a mistake on Minaya's part.

Regarding ballparks: 146 HR were hit in Mets home games last year, and 164 in Mets road games. 109 HR were hit in Marlins home games, and 135 in Marlins road games. Yes Shea isn't ideal for power hitters, but Pro Player is actually worse, so there is no reason to question Delgado's ability to hit here. And Shea is more favorable to lefties than righties; somebody suggested that we haven't had a lefty power hitter to take advantage of that, but I think Cliff Floyd would disagree.

I'd project Jacobs as getting an .850 OPS, with very large error bars. Delgado should be at least 100 points higher, with much smaller error bars. I like Jacobs, but there would have been an element of risk playing him at first. (Then again, I think there is a bigger risk going with Diaz or Nady in right field than Jacobs would be at first, but we'll see how things pan out.)

The Red Sox haggled the Marlins into accepting their second best pitching prospect instead of their first, and it's not clear who else could have taken on as much of Delgado's contract as the Mets, so I think Olney may have a point that this deal could have been made for less.

I have a long-term concern with the Mets' direction, though. Assuming there's a limit to how much the Mets can spend -- and I have to think Delgado would have been here last year if there wasn't -- they can only go to the well so often. Beltran's contract is very heavily backloaded, and Reyes and Wright will soon have rapidly escalating salaries. If Minaya is not careful, the Mets could wind up in a few years with no money to spend and no minor-league talent to supplant aging players. In other words, if they're aiming to win now, then they sure as hell had better win now.

[Frayed Knot]

Omar seems to want to move quickly and the BoSox are in no hurry concerning Manny. Waiting for Boston to find a GM and wondering if Manny's mood-du-jour would accept a deal to NYC could potentially have caused a lot of missed moves - like previously unexpected fire sales f'rinstance.

Of course now the Cammy/Nady swap makes less sense. Nady just lost at least half a job.

[Guest Edgy DC]

On admitting an error:

My own calculations here.

The deal both the Mets and Marlins offered last year was for approximately four years and $52 million. That's an average annual value of $13 million.

But the first season of the Marlin deal he signed only paid him four million. That brings the average annual value of the remaining three years of the deal up to a whamming $16 million. But the Marlins sent seven million with him, which takes it back down to $13.67 million.

So the Mets appear to be paying a little more than they offered him last year.

You look at the players the Mets gave up this year. But also consider the two high draft picks they didn't give up by signing him. That's no wash, though --- two advanced prospects seem to me to be worth more than two early (Nos. 16- 65) draft picks, but it certainly ameliorates the difference.

So the Mets are paying 2/3 of a million more per, plus give up the difference between Jacobs/Petit and two high draft picks. Plus he's a year older.

The flip side to consider. They're locked in for one fewer year, they get him in a market that is likely more expensive (though the fire sale itself may hurt that), and they acquire him coming off a year with a 161 OPS+ rather than coming off the 128 with which he was signed.

So, yeah, I guess they wish they got him last year. But admitting an error is a deliberately negative way to view that. They had matched the Marlins offer, so it likely would've taken another mill to get him to change his mind, maybe more.

[metirish]

] I like Delgado, and I'm glad he's here, but if winning now was so important why didn't we offer more money last year? We're basically paying the same money per year, for one less year (and he would have benefited the team enormously last year), and now we've given up two players we might miss later. It almost seems like an admission of a mistake on Minaya's part.

The Mets IIRC offered as much if not more last year, Delgado felt the Marlins were a better fit and had a better chance to win than the Mets, plus he was insulted by Omar's hispanic crew.......I read a few days ago that Omar introduced Tony Bernazard to Delgado recently at a function and Delgado retorted back.."oh yeah the highest paid interperter in the world".....I am very curious to hear what Delgado thinks aobut this trade.

[Benjamin Grimm]

No direct quotes from Delgado yet, but here's what his agent said, as quoted in the Daily News:

]"Whatever happened last year was a matter of the way negotiations go," agent David Sloane said. Sloane said Delgado now was ecstatic. "One thing I would like to clear up: Last year had nothing to do with not wanting to play with the Mets," Sloane said. "Carlos felt in '05 the Marlins offered him the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That being said, in '06 the Mets will offer the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That was it, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with him not liking New York. He has family in New York. He loves the city and the people."

[Vic Sage]

the TITTS say "yea, verily, yea!"

[Benjamin Grimm]

From Bob Klapisch, some insight on why Delgado was offended by the Mets' approach last winter:

]Things got so bad that at last year's winter meetings, Delgado derisively called Bernazard, "the highest paid translator on the planet." How, exactly, did their relationship disintegrate? According to one person familiar with the dialogue, Bernazard made the mistake of addressing Delgado in "street" Spanish, either unaware or indifferent to the fact that Delgado is intelligent, well-spoken and highly principled. One two occasions, Delgado had Sloane tell the Mets to keep Bernazard away from the recruitment process -- or as the source put it, "he didn't want to have anything to do with the guy."

[Benjamin Grimm]

The deal is now official.

[Valadius]

The Mets have acquired Carlos Delgado from the Marlins for Mike Jacobs, Yusmeiro Petit, and Grant Psomas.

Who is Grant Psomas?

[nymr83]

never heard of him.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Me neither. But now that I found out that Grant Psomas is in the deal, I'm opposed to it.

He's sure to be the next Mike Schmidt.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Psomas is a middling third-base prospect. The system is pretty thick at third right now, and, obviously, they seem set at the big-league level.